Slay the Impostor Monster with Lori Hammond | Business Survival Livestream 021

Simon is joined by personal development coach Lori Hammond as we discuss how to reduce stress and boredom while in lockdown and tips to move past your self-limiting beliefs. Lori Hammond –


Note: This transcription has been generated with AI and there may be errors present. 


When the red buttons on Laurie, that means we’re live on Facebook. So excited. I’m so glad. And thank you for joining us all the way from Denver, Colorado. And it’s, I think you’ll notice actually, when a few people jump on the live stream very shortly that we’ve got a global audience, we’ll have some folk from Namibia, some folk from New Zealand, America, and of course, across the UK, and Ireland as well. So that’s going to be a lot of fun. I’ll just wait for a couple of moments. Give. Right? And then we’re gonna get into this. I’m just all right. There we go. Fantastic. You got a bunch of folks that have joined us. who joins Dave Richards here, so is from Wales, and in to find out about mindset, behavioural change, hypnosis, weight loss, running a business online, dealing with a pandemic, and anything else that we can turn our head to during a 60 minute sprint. For all of those awesome topics. Lori, how are you?

I’m so well, Simon. It’s I’m so excited to see you. I’ve been really excited for this. You and I met three years ago, and I haven’t seen you since we’ve interacted some and i just i It’s crazy. I miss you after just knowing you for a week. It’s so cool to connect with you again.

Yeah, it’s brilliant. I was thinking that actually. And it’s really fast. Firstly, how, how quickly the time goes. And secondly, how much the world has changed. You know, not just in terms of the stuff that we’re going through right now. But just generally stuff goes quickly, doesn’t it in three years on here we are.

It really does. Yeah, it’s it’s incredible. I was saying to my daughter the other day we went to, she ordered a pair of pants from the store. And we drove up to the store, we’re wearing our masks. This man comes out, puts our order in our trunk and then walks back in the store and I looked at my daughter and I said if I would have told you six months ago that this is what life was gonna be like could have you believed me?

Yes, this is just normal. Now. These things are normal. So we’ve got some folk from the southeast of the UK Jenny saying hi from Kim to raise it from Bristol says Hi, a dico from Kent as well. Laura somewhere in South Wales. Lucy from London. We’ve got Leslie from Wales. Great to see all of you here. Deborah Keller. Sangeeta from from London is here just straight. Suzette. And actually Suzette is in Indianapolis, she runs a fitness business called Sweatbox fitness that she came to our course in Indianapolis. So she’s a lot closer to geographically than some of the folks that are watching. Yeah.

Welcome, everyone. Right, and please

share it. And we’ve got Duncan that’s just joined us from New Zealand as well, which is super cool. And this thread is this. The trade chat this evening is I’m so excited for it. There’s a lot of topics that we’re going to dive into. And, Laurie, I remember the course that you came to the bar business school course in Colorado, I remember you sat in the front row every day, and there wasn’t much of a stage area. And you I think I remember there was you and a couple others that sat in the front row every day. And it makes me think two things. Either this person is super committed, and wants to take all of the information down that they can and they’re diving in headfirst to make this thing happen, or it means that they’re going to heckle me all the way through the course. Now I’m really glad to say that you didn’t heckle it was option A? What was that like for you? So you know, three years ago, you came to Papa, almost three years? And what was the what was the thing that you got from from the course that influenced what happened with your business next?

Simon, I thought you were gonna say the second option is that I was couldn’t see well, or I was hard of hearing. So that experience was so yeah, three, that experience was absolute, like truly, truly life changing. For me, I still talk about pop up business all the time. I’m actually in a place now where I’m starting to coach people how to get past not really business coaching, but how to get past like this imposter syndrome feeling that they have where they’re afraid to move forward. And you all have had such an impact on that. So I did make a conscious decision. I came really early every day and I got that front row seat people I almost had to fight people for it. I had to get there really early. Because I I feel like when you really there’s when you you’re like sending a message to the part of you that knows how to really take on learnings and when you’re in the front row. You’re going to be engaged you’re not going to be whispering to the person next to you or playing on your phone. You’re going to be respecting that person and engaging and you’re going to absorb more information that way.

That’s super cool. Now look I’m interested to know this just going back before we met before you launched your business. And we’re going to talk about your, your hypnosis business and how you’ve helped. And when you helped a whole bunch of Czech people change their lives. But what was the thing that led to that? What were you doing before? And what led you to set up your business?

Yes, so I was actually a hairstylist before that. And one of the things I love most about doing hair was that inner interaction with my client. And anyone who has a hairstylist knows that a lot of times when you sit in that chair, they start running their fingers through your hair, it’s like, yeah, you just, you people open up, and they used me as their therapist and I, they would leave feeling beautiful on the outside and kind of cleansed on the inside because they got to unload. And I, I started looking for some ways to deal with my own weight battles, I had always struggled with my weight. And I went to see a couple hypnotist. They, it was like not super effective. So I thought, I’m going to learn this for myself. And as I’m learning, I’m thinking, man, there’s so many tools here that I can use with my hairstyling clients, to help them really tap into their own internal resources. It’s not really a lot of people think that hypnosis is mind control, or me giving you suggestions. When really what I’m doing is I’m helping people unlock their own their own inner counsellor in a way that works better for them than traditional therapy. And in many cases, traditional therapy has its place. So I was in this thought process, and I had actually just quit my job. I think about six weeks before I came to pop up, I had quit my hairstyling job to go into hypnosis full time I didn’t have this is. So it’s terrible for me to admit this, I didn’t really have a savings. I didn’t have a plan B, my plan B was if I ended up homeless, I’ll go back to doing hair. And it because I had tried, I tried to start a business on the side. And I just didn’t do it. I knew the only way to do it was to kind of mama bird myself out of the nest and put myself in a half two position. And I was going through my I was actually sitting in the airport coming home from a trip and I saw an email from Mister Money Moustache. And it said I’m doing this two week training. It’s called pop up business. And I’m reading it and I’m like, What’s, what’s the catch? This is a free training. This is this sounds just absolutely amazing. And I and I thought well, I’ll come back and look at it later. And there was like this little voice inside that said, do it now. And I found out later that it you know, it filled up to capacity and they closed the doors. So I was so lucky to be there. And it happened to be taking place about 20 minutes from my house. So once I got in there and I realised even on the first day this, there’s no catch there, I’m just getting this massive value. I’m learning to have all the tools that I need to make this. It’s almost like the universe was telling me you did the right thing by going all in. So I’m just incredibly grateful.

We just knew we had a sixth sense. That’s why we decided to come to Colorado because it was good timing for you, Laurie. Thank you. I was looking at your website earlier. And so your website, I think Jack’s put the post at the bottom. Yeah, he has trancy pants calm. And I remember you saying that out loud on the course. Brilliant name, we love the name of your business. Now the thing like when I was reading this and looking at the photos that you’ve got on your website, I the same thought went through my head today as what went through my head three years ago. I just can’t imagine you in those jeans Laurie, in 70 pounds, that’s five stone or you know 30 More than 30 kilos in weight that you lost and permanently as well as we can see.

Right? Yeah, and it’s, you know, part of it, it wasn’t just so much the losing it the one time it was getting off that roller coaster of of constantly, I was always either rapidly gaining or rapidly losing I was overeating massively or starving myself and it was this, this sort of inner torment. So the people that I help now it’s not even so much to get them to their their physique goal as it is to give them a freedom in their relationship with food. So they feel like they’re in control of their own life again, and they can you know this this food obsession stops so many people from focusing on other things in their life that are more important and when when you’re able to release that and essentially what I coached people to do is to take on the mindset of a person who never struggles with their weight, just the naturally slim person who can take it or leave it who can go to their favourite restaurant order their favourite thing off the menu and halfway through they push the plate away and they’re just engrossed in conversation. instead. So it’s it’s the freedom that has meant the most to me.

I think that was one of the things that really stood out from the from the marketing copy that you’ve got on your page, which is about, you know, people that struggle to lose weight because they’ve got a, you know, like a fat person’s mindset, but they’re doing all of the things. And that tension between the two. And I’m thinking, I’m thinking in my old ways, and I can really relate to this, you kind of think in the old ways, but you consciously go no, I think to think differently now. And I guess people keep springing back. That’s the yo yo diets all over, right?

Yeah, so if if a person who has been on that diet roller coaster thinks if you think back to the very first time before you ever went on a diet, and imagine if you could go back now and have you know, maybe you were worried because you were 10 pounds overweight, or whatever it is. But stepping into that diet mentality and having all these shoulds and should not send good and evil foods and feeling beating yourself up, if you eat a piece of cheesecake or whatever. It really keeps you trapped in this mentality. It’s like a forbidden fruit syndrome type thing where the just knowing that you can’t have it makes you want to even more.

Nice. And I think just before we move on to a couple of questions for you about about trying to start your business as a side hustle, I’m really interested in that. I did some some research on just to help me visualise how heavy 31 kilos is. And some examples are four times as heavy as a bowling ball. 1/5 as heavy as a panda and 1/5 as heavy as a reindeer. Or it’s five or six times as heavy as a gallon of paint. I mean, you know, I’ve been eating my way through lockdown. Laurie, I was nervous about speaking to you tonight. Because I’ve put on a good Tuesday in two and a half stone in the last year or so. I was nervous. But I was also excited because maybe we can get into some tips about mindset change, behavioural change, changing some habits and be fascinated to learn from you on that. But just before we get into into that stuff, tell me your experience of trying to start a side hustle, whilst you know, being a mom having a day job and all of the other things that were going on in your life at the time, what did you find?

It was a struggle, I tend to be really perfectionistic. And so before I knew that I wanted to have this side hustle that would move into something that would allow me to not have to be behind the chair to make money. And so I started I was initially going to create a programme around like more of a traditional diet programme. This is before I started hypnosis, and I spent six months writing a 10,000 word article. And I was so perfectionistic and I cited all my sources and and then that ended up I ended up scrapping that and I felt so discouraged. It’s like, oh, I might as well give up and then I started thinking about this hypnosis thing. And I, I could feel myself going down that same path. I was afraid to tell people, I was afraid to use the H word to tell them I was a hypnotist that I had been studying hypnosis because it freaks so many people out. And I realised that if I didn’t, this is just for me. I don’t recommend this for anyone for everyone. But I didn’t an activity that Tim Ferriss I learned from Tim Ferriss called fear setting where you sit down and you essentially think, okay, if I go all in, if I just put all my eggs in one basket, and I invest myself in this fully, what’s the worst thing that could happen? And really, the way I saw it, the worst thing that could happen is I completely go broke, and I have to go back to doing hair. So I’m right back where I started anyway. So for me, I made that decision to just go all in because I knew myself. I knew that I wouldn’t take that action unless I had to. So I put myself in the position of having to

cool and so you came to pop up you got your business launched I’ve got some questions about about marketing, I think I think it’s it’s always the the hot topic for folk pop up after pop up before pop up. You know how you actually get customers, how you promote yourself? What was that like for you? When when you sort of press the go button and you launched your business? How did you go about getting customers to visit your website and get in touch with you and sign up?

Yeah, honestly. A big part of my business strategy I got from pop up, you know, sitting in that first row and trying to absorb everything that I could. I still remember Alan on the whiteboard, creating this funnel showing how he gets his clients. And in a way it was really discouraging. And I was resisting. It’s like I have to attract all these people to get to get these to actually engage with me. And I went through a shift at one point I had really been resisting the marketing, I really wanted to believe if you build it, they will come. Even though I knew deep down, that’s not true. So something magical happened when I just decided to accept the fact that I was going to need to put, I decided that I’m going to do 5050 I’m always learning more about my trade, I’m always learning how to be a better and better hypnotist. And I committed at some point that, okay, I’m going to put just as much energy into learning, marketing and business as I am into hypnosis. And that’s where everything shifted for me, when I started to acknowledge that I’m actually doing people a disservice by not understanding how to speak to them in a way that lets them understand the value that I can give them, that lets them understand that I really have something that will change their life by me being like hiding under a bushel and being ashamed to say, you should really do this thing, it’s gonna change your life. I was not only holding myself back, but I was keeping people from getting the help that I knew I could offer.

Oh, man, those two things that you’ve just said, Laurie, a just phenomenal, I think. So just to play back what you said about, you know, we get super involved and passionate about the, whatever the business is about. And if you know, we do need to sort of press pause on that for a second and go right, I now need to fire the coach just for a few hours a week and re hire the sales and marketing expert that’s within me, because it’s a different way of thinking, because of the hypnosis can’t be cut, the hypnotist can’t be in charge of marketing, you need a marketing, right? So you put your time and effort into doing that. I think that’s fine.

I did. Yeah. And the cool thing that I discovered is that so much of marketing really actually lines up with hypnosis. And if you look at the way people put ads together and the way people are influencing you, I mean, let’s talk about the pandemic that’s going on, you turn on the TV, and all of a sudden you are being hypnotised into fear into anxiety into worry into blame. And, and it just creates this angst inside of us that that can really it can lead us to the refrigerator, can it not? I think that’s this worldwide experience. But hypnosis is happening all around us. And when we realise that a lot of these, the reason that we purchase things is because people actually understand how to influence you. When you step into the, the identity of wanting to do that, ethically, and wanting to use your influence your influence to help people understand the value that you give, I think something really profound happens.

I think that’s fantastic. The bit that’s really, I’ve never thought of it like this before. But your comments about if you’re not doing if you’re not doing the marketing side of things properly, you’re doing your clients a disservice either because you’re not reaching the people that that whose life you could positively impact with whatever your product or services. So you just said they’re not finding you and you’re not finding them. But I’m guessing that that’s a key part of the setup, isn’t it? You know, getting your clients to you with the right mindset ready and willing to change, you’ve triggered something by by framing your language in the way that you have, knowing that it’s either going to be or it’s going to be polarising, I guess, you know, there are some people that are looking at your website, and they’ll say, it’s not for me, this isn’t the kind of person I’m looking for. Or they’ll go, oh my god, I can’t believe what this woman has written. She’s really speaking to me, this is what I need. In which case, you’ve already started the process of helping someone by sharing what you know, through your website. I think that’s cool. I love this. I’m excited. Thank

you. Thank you. And, uh, really something that I would like to make people aware of is that my website and I feel like I learned this from you all as well. My website is really more of a business card. It’s it’s something that when people go there, it helps them realise who I am that I’m a legitimate business. But I have actually built most of my business through Facebook through using some of the things that that I learned in pop up about how the Facebook algorithms work. And in my line of work, and I really think in just about every line of work, no matter who’s watching, this probably applies to you. People don’t buy products, they don’t even buy results. They buy people. So they want to buy from a person who they know and like and trust. And by making yourself public by putting pictures of your face up on the internet, even if it freaks you out and it’s really uncomfortable. By sharing your story by talking about the things you’re passionate about. Regarding your business. You’re helping people see you as a real person who they can trust who they are getting to know and who they feel comfortable purchasing with.

I love that so a couple of comments on the thread. So sag eaters and Big thinking maybe she needs to learn hypnosis. I think that that’s in her mind. lightbulb moment for Catherine. That the the comment about doing potential clients a disservice. Thank you to Helen I think I had some mic problems I fixed that. Jenny’s interested in the relationship between hypnotherapy and marketing. And we’ve got a whole bunch of people that have joined us from different parts of the world, which is super cool. Suzette says my new favourite now is the live videos that connects people. So I think she’s been using live to super effects. And I think we need to talk about that some more. Suzanne, find out a bit more about your live streams. But I’m, I’m interested, what was the first few actions that you took? What worked and what didn’t in those first few weeks of launching? Laurie?

Yeah, that’s a great question. And I’ve, I’ve done so much wheel spinning since the beginning where I was spending hours and hours and hours in my business. But I started to realise that there’s just a few little things I’m doing that are actually making an impact. It’s that 8020 rule where 20% of our effort is yielding 80% of our results. And I started to realise that that was in the videos that I was making in the posts that I was making, I would go in and if someone commented on my post, I would go in and direct message them and start to build a relationship with them. And it’s, it seems like a lot of work, but honestly, I’ve never probably spent more than an hour a day, engaging on Facebook, you know, in a few minute increments throughout the day. So I would say making those videos has been the thing that has been been the biggest impact and and also really working on my own perspectives on getting myself out of this this fear of what if this happens, what if this happens? What if this scary thing happens? And moving into a place of what if this could happen? What if this could happen? What if I could do this, and it literally like when we’re in what if mode, we’re triggering our amygdala, we’re in fight flight freeze, and I say forget mode where we’re forgetting all of our resources. And when we just step into a place of relaxing and curiosity and playfulness and start brainstorming from a place of possibility, it allows the prefrontal cortex of our mind to open up to all these possibilities and start noticing all these things that we might have been missing. So I really think that playfulness and curiosity is the antidote to fear and anxiety.

I think that’s fascinating. The, I know that there’s a bunch of people that will be watching this that will really resonate with them about, about being fearful of promoting and fearful of, you know, allowing strangers onto a Facebook post. And, you know, what, what if someone says something that I don’t like, what if someone is nasty? What if someone criticises my business? And in the early days, did you? I guess, I want to know how quickly you got to that curious and playful state? And what was it like the transition for you from going I’m a bit fearful and I’m a bit scared of this and I feel a bit paranoid paralysed by use the term imposter syndrome. And that’s something that comes up an awful lot of, I’m not really sure if I can do this, can I? No one’s given me permission to do this. What was the transition? Like for you? How long did it take?

That’s a great question. And I feel like that’s kind of an ongoing thing. I don’t know if it was necessarily a one moment shift. And all of a sudden, I don’t have imposter syndrome anymore. I think I am always going through this, you know, there’s this one voice that’s talking in my ear about how you don’t have what you need to do this. What if you’re not really good enough? What if what if, and I’ve started to get to where I, I recognise that as what I call the imposter monster. And it helps me to shift and a big part of that has been that me choosing to make myself a little more public, which was terrifying for me, has allowed people to come to me and say, Hey, I see what you’re doing. And I would really like to do this, but and then they tell me all these imposter monster things, you know, I need one more training. I need one more certification, I need to get a light ring before I can do my Zoom calls. You know, whatever, whatever this story is, it’s telling you you’re not ready. I don’t have enough ideas. I have too many ideas. I’ve started to realise this is something that everyone deals with. And I think that the people who are achieving are the ones who have that voice in their air, but they’re moving forward anyway. And when I first decided to do this, I had my facebook page was private. You couldn’t even find me on Facebook unless we had a mutual friend. I almost never posted and I thought well, maybe I can make a second Facebook page. So All my friends don’t realise I’m doing this because they know me as Laurie Hammond hairstylist and they’re gonna freak out when they hear that I Laurie him and hypnotist. And it was that that act of knowing that I had to do I had to do this or I was gonna have to go back to being in a hairstylist, which I loved. But I I was done. That made me start to actually take action and get bold and what I found Simon it’s so cool, because you will get people, you know, saying, oh, you know, saying mean things, and I’ll address that in a second. But so many of the people like my former hairstyling clients, my former, the hairstylist that I worked with people that I knew from the past are now coming to me and having me help them in a new capacity. And I never expected that. So it’s been really cool. And as far as the the critics, there is an amazing talk by Brene Brown. And it’s one of her TED Talks. And I think if you were to Google, it’s the critic, it’s shoot now I’m gonna It’s the Man in the Arena. It’s based on a speech by I believe Roosevelt. And she talks about how it’s, you know, you when you people are criticising you, you need to look at the source. And so often the person who’s criticising you is the person who’s sitting on their couch, too afraid to take action and do what you’re actually doing. So the people that you can listen to feedback from are the people who are actually in the arena with you, the people who are taking action, the people who are making videos, the people who are being brave and putting themselves out there, getting out of their comfort zone, and and moving forward in spite of that imposter monster that’s sometimes screaming in their air.

This this the imposter monster ever go away? Can you get the imposter monster to go away? Because Deb? Deb from up in Bolton in the northwest of England, Deb is from the the Bolton mafia, as we like to call it, she said, Tell me more about vanquishing the imposter syndrome, please. Do you know, what is that? Is that just making friends with it? Is it silencing? Is it sending it away? Is it just acknowledging and then replacing it with a different narrative? What’s the strategy that worked for

you? Yeah, that’s a great question. And I think that different strategies work well for different people. Is it okay, if I plug my podcast that I just started? Yeah, go for it. So I just started a podcast called slay the imposter monster. So slay and vanquish are pretty similar. But ultimately, I don’t know that it ever does go away. For me, what has been the best strategy is to turn it into a game to embrace playfulness and to kind of acknowledge okay, I hear you, you’re scared you feel like, like an imposter. But I’m just gonna do it anyway, sometimes I’ll make a post on Facebook. I don’t do this as often anymore, because I’ve kind of trained myself to, to do it. But I’ll make a post and I’ll look at it. I’ll be like, Oh, this is stupid. Everybody’s gonna make fun of me. People are gonna think I’m an idiot. And then I just hit send, and it’s in the world. And I’m like, Well, I did it. So I think that it’s a big key is just recognising it recognising that everyone is dealing with this. And and when you recognise it, it helps you move forward. So if you go to my website, that trancy, there’ll be a podcast, tab up top. And as of now, I only have two up there. And I’m talking with other hypnotist. But it’s so valuable because we’re talking about how everyone deals with this and some really cool strategies for moving past it. So I I’m having a blast doing it. This was me getting over my imposter syndrome about making a podcast. And I just decided to do it.

Brilliant achievement. Fantastic. Yeah, I’ve seen it on there. I’ve had a quick look. It’s on the top menu, two episodes to listen to dive in to slay the imposter monster. I love this. I know that this is going to be a great resource for folks. And I would say it’s, it’s in the top five most common conversations, but not necessarily consciously. You know, we hear lots of folks saying exactly the same reasons the excuses that you talked about, you know, I haven’t got the right idea yet. There’s a piece of equipment I need. I haven’t got a certificate. And actually we know what it is. It’s it’s fear, and, and that’s okay, but I love I love your strategy of playful and curious to get over it. I think that’s genius.

Yeah, I have a little exercise I can I can offer the viewers if you’d like. This is something that I’ll do oftentimes, like in my group weight loss hypnosis session, hypnosis programme. I share this with people. And it seems really simple but so much of this this imposter syndrome. It’s, I mean, if you really break it down to the neuroscience, it’s this lizard brain that is programmed to look for scary things. To keep us in our comfort zone, because our comfort zone is safe, but all the adventure and all the beauty happens outside our comfort zone. So you can actually condition yourself to get used to getting outside your comfort zone by doing this silly little exercise and it’s too, every time you go to brush your teeth, when you see yourself reaching for your toothbrush, as soon as you notice yourself reaching for your toothbrush, you say oh yeah, I’m gonna, I’m going to switch this up and you actually brush your teeth with your opposite hand. And what’s gonna happen is you’re gonna be like, thinking really hard about how to move your elbow how to move your shoulder, there’s gonna be like, toothpaste, saliva dripping down your chin, and it’s gonna be so frustrating. And, and you’re gonna hate it. And what you can do is as you’re brushing your teeth, just say in your mind, uncomfortable things soon become automatic, uncomfortable, things become automatic. So in the same way that I had to psych myself up to hit send, when I made that first Facebook post, now I just do it. i It’s yeah, maybe people are gonna think I’m an idiot, send. And so by doing this with your, you know, brushing your teeth like this everyday, what you’re gonna find is it within a really quick amount of time, like 30 days at the most, it’s going to be automatic for you to just brush your teeth with that opposite hand, you’re going to be just as good at it as you were before. And you’re going to have taught your subconscious mind that part of you that’s keeping you back and making you afraid that it’s okay to get outside your comfort zone that it’s okay to do scary things.

This is fantastic tip. I love that. You know, toothpaste. Saliva was the look I was going for Laurie, so thank you for that tip. Anytime. So we’ve got Paul has joined us, which is great. Katherine said she did a live feed tonight. She’s not 100% happy with it. She thought sod it carried on published it anyway. And our heart is still racing. So it gets easier though. Laurie, right?

Yes, Catherine. First of all, kudos. I am so proud of you. I know how scary that is. And it might be imperfect. And I’m so glad you put it out there anyway. So I’ll share a story about a year and a half into what I was doing. I told myself Okay, when I when I reached this certain landmark, I’m going to reach out to Jason Lynette who’s a well known podcaster in the hypnosis industry. And I’m going to ask him if he’ll interview me. And the instant I made the decision to get laser focused and just focus on making my videos in my posts on Facebook. The instant I made that decision, I opened my email the next morning, and I have a message from Jason limit asking me to be on his podcast. So I interviewed with him, you know I’m psyching myself up, I’m doing my best to just appear professionally. And I finished the interview. And that night I went out and I was listening to live music. I was sitting like in kind of a bar area. And I don’t remember anything about the music because the whole time I’m sitting there and I’m like, Oh my gosh, what did I do? I’m going to be the laughingstock of the hypnosis community. Maybe I can just shut off my website, I can close down my weight loss group, I can just disappear off of Facebook, I can go back to do it. Being a hairstylist. I’m just going to call Jason and tell them nevermind, take the podcast down. Like I was freaking myself out so badly. And I told one of my good friends about this. And she said Laurie I was I was scared to listen. And when the podcast aired, I got so much positive feedback. And people were coming into my programme and people were reaching out to do sessions with me. And I even listened back to it. I’m like, this isn’t terrible. Like it’s not perfect, but it’s not terrible. So we tend to be our own worst critic. And so Katherine, again, I just applaud you. Because it’s the people that are actually taking action. And every time you keep doing it over and over and over, you’re going to get better and better and more and more comfortable. And pretty soon, your comfort zone is going to have expanded to here and then what’s the next amazing thing you’re going to do to move you even further out of your comfort zone.

I love this. You’re inspiring some people hear insights. Jenny is saying wow, I’m going to brush my teeth together and tonight, Marsh is joined us Sangeeta says right I’m taking that risk and sending that message. So I wonder what’s going to happen as a result of that. That’s superb. Sangeeta love it. lisabeth says nothing changes whilst you’re sat in the comfort zone. Helen says imposter syndrome constantly resurfaces for me. Even when I get great feedback from people I respect. I jumped to thinking it’s because they feel sorry for me, but I just don’t let it stop me. So Helen’s kind of powering through the the stuff that’s kind of holding back a little bit if you’ve got any thoughts for Helen on that comment, Laurie?

Yeah. Is it? Is it Helen or Helena?

It’s Helen. Helen Lawson, Helen.

Okay. Yeah, Helen, I think this is really common and what I what I believe in what I suspect is that part of you that’s having a hard time accepting that positive feedback, letting you know that imposter monster keeps coming back. This almost almost might be a comfort zone habit that you’ve created, even though it feels yucky, to beat yourself up and second guess yourself and think, Oh, they’re just saying this to make me feel better. It might just be a habit that you’ve broke that you’ve collapsed into to just let that imposter monster take the reins. So something that you can try to do. In fact, it I’ll just walk everyone through this really quickly, is imagine that a magic string is pulling you up from the top of your head. So it’s kind of like aligning your bones, letting your lungs expand, and then just be a marionette, like, let your shoulders relax down. Just get into this relaxed posture. And so often, when the imposter monster is screaming in our ear, we’re like breathing shallow chest, breaths from high in our chest. So please hear your hand on your belly right now. And take a deep breath so that that hand moves out from low in your belly. And then a long, slow exhale. And what this does is as soon as you just change your posture, and you change your breathing, you exhale for longer than you’re inhaling, it actually turns off that voice of the imposter monster. And it lets you start to move into a place of curiosity and think, Hmm, what did it what did I do? Well, with that podcast, how brave Am I that I did that, when so many other people think about it, and they never do it. Or maybe this person really does think I’m awesome, and just accept that find gratitude that people are giving you this positive feedback. But it’s, it seems really simple. Sometimes these simple tools work the best. But that imposter monster when he’s there, you’re going to notice your shoulders are clenched, your breathing is shallow. And simply by changing your posture and your breathing, that then gives you the ability to change that voice in your head and to choose your self talk. And to build yourself up. It’s okay to encourage yourself, it’s okay to acknowledge your success. Because I really think that we recreate what we celebrate. So every time you notice yourself doing something imperfectly, taking imperfect action, if you just do a little I did it, you’re gonna find yourself continuing to do that success. And by the same token, every time you beat yourself up for a mistake, or even a perceived mistake, it actually causes you to keep repeating that mistake because you get what you focus on.

Oh, there’s so much in that Laurie, I feel like I should be making notes here. That’s fantastic. And you can definitely feel the difference Scotney when you change your posture, and and hopefully people try that exercise whilst they were whilst they were watching as fab. Okay, so Helen says there’s nothing better than hearing from someone who has had to overcome the same challenges that many of us struggle with, which is which is great. So thank you for being so generous with with sharing that the journey, Laurie, I guess. Running a business is easy, isn’t it? You haven’t had any challenges at all over the last three years? It’s been plain sailing, and everything’s gone exactly how you want it? Or not? Perhaps what what’s that been like? What’s that ride been like?

You know, it’s it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. I’ve raised three kids, I’ve, you know, I’ve been through some crazy stuff. I’m divorced, that was hard to go through. But building this business has been the hardest thing. And if, if I wasn’t so passionate about my dream, if I didn’t get feedback from people, sometimes you know, there’s still times when I’m like, oh, I should just throw in the towel. And I’ll get an email. It’s almost like this. This beautiful timing. I’ll get an email saying I just got an email the other day from this woman who had the virus and she said she was in bed. She was delirious, she could hardly even think she was so ill. And all she could think of is what she had this voice in her head that said do it the Laurie Hammond way. I’m not sure what that means. But she went and found one of the group hypnosis sessions that I have online and she said she just listened to it over and over and over. And it got her through that time and I was so humbled to know that my work had made a difference for someone. So it is the hardest thing you’ll ever do. And when you when you do it when you get to the other side, it is the most rewarding thing you will ever experience there is nothing like it. Like knowing that you have made a difference in the world. No matter what your trade is, whatever it is, you’re you’re out in the world to do. It will be the hardest and most rewarding thing you’ll do.

I can certainly relate to that Laurie for sure. I think with Got. Sangeeta says you’re Superwoman, and I am inclined to agree with her. Julian’s joined us from the Ramzi mafia. Taz is here Rohit is here. Lots of great folk have join us. I’m fascinated to know actually, Sangeeta, please come back and tell us what happens when you send that message. I’d love to know. I think there’s a question from Theresa actually. Which is a really interesting question. Laurie, I know you’ll have a view on this. Theresa. Theresa is a great artist. She’s asking for some tips on how to use hypnotherapy to make me better at selling and marketing myself. And my artwork, because it’s not natural for me. And this is such a common challenge which, you know, I went through with music I see lots of artists and creatives go through that they, they want to put their time, effort and energy into doing the thing that they love, but find it really, really difficult. And perhaps sometimes it’s about vulnerability, and definitely a slice of the imposter monster as well, of getting getting over the sales and marketing thing. How How might hypnosis help people that you know someone like Teresa that says, Look, I’m up for having a go at this, but I find it so tough? How could hypnosis help? You think?

That’s a great question. And, you know, I really think that people who struggle with the with this imposter monster, we learn, we have learned everything that we think and believe and the way that we act and behave in the world. We’ve learned that all from modelling someone else. So maybe when you were a child, you saw your parents feeling insecure, or maybe they placed insecurities on you criticising you, or school teachers or the school bully. And those these external voices, we’ve allowed to internalise and become our own. So it’s really like we’re actually we’re already hypnotised to not realise our greatness, to not realise our potential to not realise that there is confidence inside of us. So if you’ve ever experienced confidence in any area of your life, even for a split second, then that is a resource that is available inside you. And if I could teach you a simple way to to tap into that resource anytime, would you be interested? So So yeah, so what I what I’d like you, this is all you know, based on imagination, so if you’ve ever seen a stage hypnosis show where people are barking, like dogs, or clicking like chickens, the only thing that’s happening is that the hypnotist is, is guiding them through an imaginary exercise. And their imagination is so vivid that their body believes them and they act on it. And this is exactly what happens when we’re freaked out, you know, when I’m thinking, Oh, I just need to call Jason limit and tell him to take that interview down. This is me hypnotising myself to think that I did a terrible job. And so you can use the same thing to hypnotise yourself into confidence. And the way to do this, if, if everyone listening just think about a time, when you have felt supremely confident in your life, you know, maybe it was in, in sports, if you’re really good at sports, or, or something that you’re really good at, if if someone asked you to do it, you would know that you could do it. And if that’s a little bit of a struggle, you can even get more creative and think about a person who is who who would be really good at this. So a moment ago someone said I’m as I’m Superwoman, I’m like, I love that because you can envision Batman, like think of Batman or Wonder Woman or someone really amazing doing this. And imagine that you see them doing this marketing that they’re doing this and you’re you could just like what if they could come whisper in your ear and tell you how to be confident. And again, it’s so simple, but change your posture stand. I mean, a lot of you might have seen a scene Amy Cuddy’s TED Talk, where she talks about how our body chemistry changes when we change our posture. So don’t try to change your mind first. Don’t try to talk yourself out of this. First change your body language, change your breathing, breathe powerfully. And then start to say, I can do this. What you’re doing is with repetition, you are re you are helping yourself. Step out of that hypnotic trance of failure, that hypnotic trance of insecurity and into a place of your own authentic confidence. And you know that you have that confidence inside you because you’ve experienced it. If you’ve ever experienced it, even for a moment, it is yours and you can apply it to this situation.

I love that the main thing that I took from that, Laurie is that I can imagine that Wonder Woman is whispering in my ear. And I think that could be that could be hugely successful strategy for me. I probably should go with Batman, I might get a different result, I think so that I’m really interested here because have you always been open to hypnosis? Have you always been open to the kinds of things that you’re talking about? Because I know a bunch of people that they watch that So there we go, I feel a bit silly putting myself into different body positions. Have you always been open to that? Or was that? Was that something that happened to you later in life?

That’s a great question. I have not always been open to it. So I I was raised in, in a really strict Christian church where I actually I wasn’t allowed to watch Scooby Doo because it had hypnosis in it. And hypnosis was evil. And so I was, I was, I was afraid of hypnosis. And when I came to hypnosis, it was because I was so desperate to get a handle on my weight, that I was willing to, to compromise myself by letting someone control my mind. I didn’t realise at the time that that’s not what it’s all about. But I was I was desperate. And so now that I understand what hypnosis is, and that we’re always, we’re always going in and out of these natural trance like states, if you’ve ever pulled your car into the driveway and realise you were you were just zoned out, you don’t remember how you got there. That’s a hypnotic trance. If you’ve ever watched a movie and jumped when the bad guy appears, it’s because you’re so immersed in an experience that your body is responding as if it’s real. And that’s all hypnosis is. But it took me a while to wrap my brain around that. And I still I get a little bit offended when I tell people I’m a hypnotist. And I met a long lost relative at a funeral recently, and we’re having this great conversation and we’re really just enjoying each other’s company. And she asked me what I do. And I said, I’m a hypnotist. And she literally backed up and went like, and like, hit her hit her eyes, so I couldn’t look her in the eye. Because people have some real misconceptions about it. And I did as well. So it’s, it’s been really cool. And you know, I’m the kind of person that would feel silly doing this in the past. But I’ve learned so much that playfulness is such a great antidote to insecurity, that it’s allowed me to start to be playful and and you know, getting outside of my comfort zone and saying, What if everyone thinks I’m stupid? And you know what, when you have these what, if not voices? What if you just interject a little two letter word at the beginning and say so? So what if everyone thinks I’m stupid? So what if people think I’m doing this so what? And it changes the changes everything about it, it lets you step into a place of willingness to explore what an amazing life is in store for you, when you start, start on these adventures.

Brilliant, I love that hacker two letter word can be such a powerful thing. I love it. So we go here to Sangeeta, who says marketing is basically asking and finding lots of different ways to ask people. And if it’s something that’s frowned upon, when you’re young, then you’ve kind of you’ve taken this all the way through your life, haven’t you? These become that habit? habits so ingrained? How easy is it to to shift those habits do you think and you come up with some great hacks here? But you know, to different degrees, we’ve got habits, some of them we’re not even aware of? Because they happen subconsciously? Yeah, what do you think about that?

I think it can be, I think it’s a lot harder to break a habit than it is to build a new habit. And a lot of times, you can just find a new habit to put in the place and that habit, you’re trying to get rid of this, this really happens with self talk. So two things can’t occupy the same space at the same time. So if you’re thinking, what if what if I made a fool of myself, they’re probably just saying that because they’re trying to make me feel better. When you start to fill your mind with gratitude, I’m so grateful that these people took the time to read my posts and tell me that I did a good job. I’m so grateful that I had the courage to hit send. Good job be and start building yourself up, those, those old thoughts are just going to naturally go away. And I’d like to address something San Gaeta said about how marketing is asking and I I definitely agree with that. But for me, I’ve kind of taken a page from Gary Vaynerchuk book where he he it’s called Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. And it’s, it’s just give, give, give, then ask, give, give, give, ask. So when I’m making my videos, I’m almost never asking. I’m saying hey, I can teach you a little technique that will help you wipe out anxiety and just a couple minutes, watch this video. And then by the end they have this new tool in their tool belt that will let them wipe out that anxiety instead of going to the refrigerator or else Or I’ll tell them a little story. You know, last night I went to the gym and I was I just made a video like this before lockdown. I was judging this lady because she was really hot and I’m like, feeling bad about myself and partway through the session. I realised you know what, she’s just a human and she you know, I’m actually objectifying her by looking at her by her body instead of her heart and It really helped me start to see things and I just shared that little story on my video. And then now and then I’ll say, Hey, I just put together a training to help you stop imposter syndrome. You want to, you want to join, and people are just signing up and it was that one little post, because I had already built that rapport with them. They knew me. They like me, they trust me, because I’ve been giving them value and helping them get to know me. And I think really, in my mind, that’s, that’s a huge part of marketing.

I love this. Right, let’s get jack on. The pub’s is still shot. I know Jackson in the end of his laptop. Jack, where are you come and join us, Jack. Jack.

Every time I’m tempted to just leave you hanging.

I know you’re gonna do that one day Jack. Today is our 21st live stream. The pop up business school, Facebook, live streams have come of age. So there we go. You’ve got some questions now. Laurie is good. Lori has given us so much value tonight and so many amazing tips. I know you’ve got a couple of questions up your sleeve. And there’s a couple more questions that came through on the thread that I have not referred to what was on your mind tonight, Jack?

Yes. So yeah, we put a comment out earlier asking for for questions or as marshy is member of the team has sent me a text. Rather than asking for a question. What I wrote was what questions have for do you, Laurie? So it’s been a long day. That’s all I could say. But people people read for it. And thankfully, we do have some questions. Theresa Island asks, What are Lori’s tips on dealing with your inner voice.

So I would probably go back to that, that idea that two things can’t occupy the same space at the same time. So in in a training that I just did on Sunday for helping people silence that imposter monster, I taught them a technique I’ve kind of already taught it to you all. And it is to when you notice yourself drifting. This is this is when you’re in those thoughts of what if and I’m not good enough, I need more training, I have too many ideas. I don’t have enough ideas. That’s, that’s what I’m going to call drifting. And there’s a way that you can shift and that you can start dealing with that imposter monster voice and you can start moving. You know, like Sant Simon was just saying how do we create a new habit, I’m going to show you how you can start to shift out of that imposter monster thinking. So every time you notice yourself feeling discouraged every time you notice yourself feeling fearful and thinking what are people gonna think of me use that as your cue to use this tool. And all it is is first you’re going to shift your posture. Remember that magic string, this is key because you don’t want to sit up straight by doing this. Because this is actually the posture of anxiety when your shoulders are up like this. So if the magic string is pulling you up, it allows your shoulders to relax. So just even as you’re listening right now, just relax your shoulders. And then take that deep belly breath. And I like to do 711 breaths. So breathe in for a seven count, not necessarily seven seconds, because that’s a really long breath. And exhale for 11. And this does this actually turns off the imposter monster voice it turns off the amygdala, which is that fight flight freeze and forget everything you know about succeeding, and it puts your resources online and then you shift into a place of wonder. Just say, I wonder how I can build my business even more quickly than I thought. I wonder how I can market myself even more effectively. I wonder what would happen if I started to think about this in a completely different way. And what it’s going to do is it’s going to help you start to notice all the possibilities you were missing before. And then again, just to start to give yourself a pep talk. It’s okay to be your own biggest cheerleader and start to say, I can do this I know I’m going to succeed start fantasising about what life is going to be like six months from now. Get out a journal and write about, you know, dated May 26 2021. Today I woke up and I realised that I’m so grateful because my bank account has this many zeros in it and the all these people reached out and told me how happy they are that my business is going and just really let yourself feel what it’s like to accomplish that goal. And let yourself think about your business from that place. So it’s going to be really hard to silence the imposter monster. But it’s really easy to fill your head so full of confident talk and change your posture to you know, this is the imposter monsters posture. And when you step into this, it just automatically lets you release that and step into confidence. And you’re going to have to do it over and over and over. It’s not a one time thing. I still do this you guys

Jack how’s your imposter monster posture? I’m gonna I’m gonna remember that forever. That’s brilliant.

I keep having to remind myself as I’m watching it, I kind of melt. Okay, someone’s mentioned. So Laurie came to our first. No, actually not only long one event bar festival USA event in Longmont, Colorado, pretty, as we mentioned about best part three years ago. Suzette asks, What was your biggest takeaway from attending the perfect business school?

Yeah, so I actually attended the second one a couple years later as well. So I’ve been to two of them here. You know, honestly, I think my biggest takeaway, so I believe it or not, I’m actually a pretty introverted person, I love to just sit you know, I, I’m sorry, you guys, but I have been enjoying the heck out of the quarantine. There, there. You know, there’s aspects that have been really hard. And I really struggled at first. And I really had to use these tools for myself because I was letting myself get hypnotised by the media to be very fearful. But I’ve I’ve really enjoyed my downtime. So when I went to pop up, I thought, Okay, I am going to extrovert the heck out of this, I’m going to introduce myself to people I’m going to engage. And it was such a beautiful experience to let myself start building relationships in that setting. And I made friends at that event that I still, I just I treasure those memories and those experiences and Simon like you and I connected and Alan and Jack and Henry and all these people, it was such a beautiful experience. And at one point, I sent out an email after pop up and because we gathered all our each other’s emails, and I said, Hey, I’ll do a free session with anyone who wants one if you’ll just tell people what you think of me. And, and I still have people, I still have referrals coming in and repeat clients that took me up on that. So I would say the most there’s so much value, I mean, soak up every word it is. So everything that is taught is so true. But to me the biggest value was getting out of my comfort zone, and connecting with people and listening to their ideas about my business and giving them ideas about theirs and just connecting with people.

I love that. You got any more Jack?

Just looking here. Got a comment from Kathleen, just how do you know when your mindset of being too confident is actually wrong? As in you are not prepared for what you’re doing is not going to work out how you estimated?

That that’s a great question. So you know, I really don’t think we’re ever going to know I I mean, at the beginning of this call, I can’t remember if if the if we had started recording or not Simon but I was I was saying how I looked at my daughter the other day when we were picking up a pair of pants they were being dropped in our trunk. And we had masks on. And I looked at her and I said Would you ever have imagined that life would be like this six months ago. So no amount of preparation, no amount of getting our ducks in a row, no amount of perfection. No amount of trainings is ever going to ensure success. So the I mean, the bottom line answer is you can’t know. But you can have an absolute blast figuring it out. And I think to err on the side of being too confident, is so much more awesome than erring on the side of being too insecure, of waiting to move forward. Because the worst thing that’s going to happen is you’re going to fail, you might fail miserably. And then you’re gonna find out one thing that doesn’t work. And I know that sounds scary. I know it’s hard to accept that. But that’s where the greatest learnings come in. And I have failed so many times. If you all go listen to my podcast that I just did with Victoria Gallagher on my website. She She is an incredibly successful woman in the online hypnosis industry. And she talks about literally being flat on her back in the hospital. 10s of 1000s of dollars in debt had to declare bankruptcy and now she’s making amazing money impacting 1000s and 1000s of lives every year doing her work and and she failed that what if happened to her and she’s okay.

I’m so glad you said that because this conversation and Kathleen’s question has reminded me that I think I’ve bombed three times really, really badly presenting once when I was about 13 Once when I was about 32 and once when I was about 36 Every time I think about those moments, I cringe and I go, Oh, no, that was so bad. I tried to erase them. But you are right. And that’s when the moments were the one that was actually I’ve been thinking about it again recently suddenly popped in my head. I don’t know why. But I’d seen some Tony Robbins. I kind of discovered him by accident, maybe in about 2008 2009. And I thought I really liked his style at that moment. So I thought, I’ll try it. I’ll try his style, just to see what it’s like. And I made a decision that I was going to be a motivational speaker, just that morning, and I’m gonna go and try this this afternoon. And I look back and I go, this was an absolute disaster. For a start, I’m five for eight, not eight for eight. You know, secondly, it just it just didn’t work. It was horrific. But actually, you know, those experiences have given me the kind of empowered me I suppose to run pop up, which is, you know, holding an audience for two weeks for six hours a day, and presenting and training and facilitating and coaching and mentoring, I could never have done that stuff. If I hadn’t have had those really painful, early experiences. I wish I’d knew then Laurie because that I would have treated them in a more of a playful way, rather than feeding the imposter monster a little and letting it grow for a little bit too long. But those key moments aren’t they,

they are in Simon what you are so good at embodying because I remember the moment I think even before you started speaking, when I saw you at pop up, I could sense a warmth and a genuineness and a care about the people in the audience. And you convey that in such an amazing way that built such a connection with everybody there, that three years later, I still feel like you’re one of my best friends because we just like I just connected with you. So to me, I think it’s okay to go out and try try on these different aspects of our personality. We all have a little bit of Tony Robbins buried somewhere inside, try it on and see if it serves you. And if it doesn’t, oh, well, I’m going to go on to the next thing.

It didn’t work for me. Thank you for saying those lovely thoughts. And yeah, that’s I’ll pay you later for being so nice. And I fired my inner Tony Robbins and hired my inner Simon Payne. And that seemed to work for me. But it’s all about exploration, isn’t it? Yeah. It’s one last question that really caught my eye. It’s it’s much more a business II question actually, from Emma. So Emma can says that she’s holding yourself back. And she’s feeling that she’s holding off sharing what she does, and how it works for some reason. So there’s obviously excuse me, obviously some blockers in there. For her, she’s not making it easy for clients to work with her. But she wants to know, can you remember when you first told people how much your services cost? And did you just do it and put yourself out there? So I guess there’s two questions. One is how you decided your pricing. And two, what was it like for you telling people the price in the early days because as a whole bunch of imposter syndrome, though imposter monsters is shouting loudly when it comes to pricing, isn’t it?

Yes. And this is Emma. Yeah, Emma. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Emma. So this is something I’ve thought long and hard about. Before I was a hypnotist, I was doing hair. And I was working at a really high end salon, where I started out as an alpha stylist, I was like the bottom of the rung, charging $20 for a haircut. And then I moved up to the next level, then the next level. And there were five levels up to master hairstylist. And as a master hairstylist, I realised I had the most easygoing clients, they trusted me to give them a to do a great job for them. They were happy to just have conversations with me, they always, I mean, there were exceptions, of course, but they loved what they saw in the mirror when I was done. They pre booked two appointments out so that my books were always full, and they were paying a premium rate. And I really believe that the rate we charge reflects the perceived value. So if if you’re bargain pricing your your stuff, you’re going to be attracting bargain buyers, and you’re going to have and I’m not you know, there’s, that’s a niche for some people, if that’s where your heart is, go for it. But if you truly want to convey the value of your product or service, I really believe that a premium price reflects that. And I think even starting out if you’re saying oh well, I’m not that good yet. So I’m going to charge this amount. They’re going to come to you and expect not that good and that’s not going to build your business to a place of of prestige and position you as an expert. So that’s my thought on pricing. I say create a premium price. Figure out where your comfort zone is and bump it up and Always be bumping it up. And then as far as talking about your price, so much of this is changing your state before you start talking about it, go into that empowered posture, that empowered breathing, be telling yourself, this person is gonna love me, I know they’re gonna jump at this opportunity I have, there’s so much value in what I’m teaching. And we’re always communicating, we’re always sending off these unconscious cues with our body language, or Michel, facial micro facial expressions. And their unconscious mind is going to pick up on your unconscious thoughts that you’re thinking, when you present your price. And something that really helped me is getting to a place where I wasn’t grasping for it, I was just kind of saying you can take it or leave it. This is really awesome. You know, it’s completely your decision. But if you decide to work with me, you’re going to be really happy you did, instead of trying to get that sale, just saying putting it on the table saying, you’re, you’re an idiot if you don’t do this. Don’t say it that way. But you know, just just have that confidence that’s going to come across. So even if you say the wrong words, even if your pitch isn’t just right, they’re going to pick up on that internal confidence and be more likely to book with you.

Yeah, that’s great advice. Jack, how are your micro facial expressions tonight?

I’m really good. But you just can’t tell because

they’re very micro.

So look, I can’t believe that. It’s over an hour. I can we could carry on this conversation for a lot longer. But I think we should pause there. And I just want to acknowledge a question. From fairly, I think it’s pronounced valleys incorrectly, that she’s thinking of starting a private practice what would be the best way to be seen through the media? We’ve got a look for the episode of the live stream, which was with John card, who does the PR for the pop up business school. He’s got some great tips. He’s written a book called How to make your company famous. I think you’ll get lots of value from that, too. So I just wanted to say Laurie, thank you so much for giving up your afternoon for us and sharing so much value. Thank you to everybody for watching tonight’s live stream. Jack. What’s happening Thursday. I’ve lost track of is anything happening Thursday. What should we do Thursday? You’re in charge a

question. We have Kelly Hardwick who if you’ve been talking about business, or you’d know her as FEM Patel airsoft is coming out on Thursday to talk about how she built her online blog, which has had over a million hits a million views and how she built a social media following over 100,000 How she’s adapted because you can’t play airsoft right now and lockdown your smash up quite a lot of the cutlery and plates in your house. So Yeah.

Brilliant. Brilliant. Look forward to that. Thanks again to everybody for watching. It’s been absolutely terrific. Thank you for your questions. Caitlin says thanks so much. Some fantastic advice from Laurie. Elizabeth says thank you, Emma’s really enjoyed it. She said thank you so de Souza. Laurie is an absolute masterclass always wanting to know the name of the person that she’s talking to open, honest, vulnerable positive people by people who wouldn’t buy into Laurie, thank you so much. What a lovely comment. So I think that just about sums up beautifully. Please check out Lori’s website trancy The links in the thread here and there are some free resources and lots of great clues as to how to write great marketing copy for your website. That is a masterclass in itself. Laurie, you absolutely rock Goodbye, everybody and thank you for watching. Thank you