How We Made The Rebel Entrepreneur Podcast | Business Survival Livestream 016

Alan and Simon welcome in the bank holiday weekend with an update of what PopUp has been up to since lockdown and we get the behind the scenes of our new podcast: The Rebel Entrepreneur. The Rebel Entrepreneur –


Note: This transcription has been generated with AI and there may be errors present. 


We’re live Simon we’re live you should have done your hair before we start the live stream not afterwards. And you’ve got to take yourself off mute as normal.

I can’t do banter with your

person in the world.

What I was gonna say before I was rudely interrupted by my mute button was that you cannot criticise me for doing my hair. You haven’t done your hair for months. There’s a whole Twitter trend of Alan collagens locked down hair going on.

You like you need to take yourself on pain of pain. What he can’t even unmute yourself. Pim

was Pam. I don’t know. I think you’ve been drinking. I don’t you don’t drink what’s going on? You can’t get your words out.

I have a ginger tea. Yeah, I don’t think people are tuning in to just see us abuse each other even though you need it desperately.

So we need it’s great. You know,

I chose this man as my business partner out of all the people out there in the world. All of the human some of them very capable. I chose him, some of

them. That’s because Alan for two reasons. Reason number one, you have wisdom beyond your years. Reason number two, the pop up business school needed some eye candy, and then I was the obvious choice.

I can. You see, you think I asked you to work with me? Because if your looks

which is my best side, this side or this side?

Definitely not your hair.

Some people are joining us, Alan, we should probably get on with it. We’ve got some familiar and wonderful faces that have joined the live stream. We have Jane Collins, Linda Robinson, Jack Haley. I remember I recognise that name. I’ve seen him before

Jane Collins. Jane Collins is here. I love Jane Collins. Hi, Jane.

We’ve got Pastor John from Namibia. Graham Carter, head of running for the whole of South of England is here. Graham Carter. We’ve got gem I saw gem earlier on on the webinar catch up from pop up. Paddington auto populates here. Hi, Laura. We’ve got Bill at William William from Lake is here. And John card is here. Cathy’s here it’s gonna be a busy one. This is fantastic. So everybody the plan for this evening.

And she Coombs is Hey, Hi, Katie. Kin Pickering. Robinson says we’re both eye candy. I’m not sure whether that’s a joke. Or she actually means it

that Linda might have been at the source. It’s great to see Helen as well. Kim from Bolton, and fan tastic. Let’s get started. So this evenings episode, it’s a bit of a, it’s a bit more of a free roaming one. We are going to start with talking about setting up the rebel entrepreneur podcast. And we’re gonna get granular on some of the detail the challenges that Alan faced in getting that podcast going, what equipment he uses for recording. And we’re going to talk about, we’re going to compare the size of microphones. As part of this exercise, I’m sure. The second thing we’re going to do is dive into some of the episodes. And then we’re going to ask Alan to give us a sneak preview of some of the best bits of the podcast. Because some of the guests that you’ve had on I’m not just saying this because I’m one of them. Some of the other guests that you’ve had on absolutely phenomenal. Some real big hitters, some very successful entrepreneurs. And I want to mine your brain, Alan for the benefit of, of our friends watching tonight’s live stream for some of the key bits that that you’ve discovered from those podcasts. And I want you to post questions, folks. So if you’ve got questions about podcast, if you’ve got questions about your business, or your business ideas, and you’re feeling stuck, please stick them in the thread and Alan and I will do our best to riff on them and any that we can’t answer. We’re going to save for our entrepreneurs and coaches that are coming on next week. And more about that a little bit later. So Alan, question number one. How are you today?

I am I’ve had a good day the sun has been shining embark share. I’ve eaten healthily. I’ve spoken to a fitness coach. To them G and Rachel that we’re going to be working with to look after our health. Because I think it’s important to have someone who can show you how to do things better than you know.

Beautiful looking well. I’m hoping my voice is gonna hold out. I’m sounding a little hoarse. I think.

I think your voice is more likely to hold up than your Wi Fi in Lutterworth.

I can even link the husk Enos of my voice to Wi Fi that’s I think that’s what John card would call a juxtaposition headline. And

I think It’s just my desire to abuse you. Okay,

fair enough. Well, whatever floats your boat on a Thursday night. So let’s get into this. Alan, when you did your very first podcast experiment, which happened before the rebel entrepreneur, what were the problems the your encountered? What was the reason it didn’t take off?

Why? The main reason it didn’t take off because I didn’t put it out there and promote it. I think we had a go at doing it. We recorded segments. And we were trying to do this incredible version where we interviewed people live at an event, I did pieces, we inter splice pieces of live event commentary, and it was very, very edited. It was like very professionally done. And I found the process painful creating it. And then I didn’t like after I’d done the first one, I was not attracted to do the second one. I was just thinking, I don’t want to do this. I’m done. So I didn’t actually promote it and send it out. And it just kind of died there. And I think my biggest learning from that is if you’re going to launch something like this, then you need to find a way to make it interesting and fun for you. Because if you don’t enjoy doing it, you’re never going to do the second one or the third one. But that was my that was my first experiment.

Alone, what would put you under some pressure here. If you had met Alan Donegan, shortly after you had captured your first podcast, what advice would Alan Dunnigan have given podcasting, Alan Dugan with that thing that you created,

you need to find a way to make it simple and easy to do for you that still valuable for the audience. And it needs to be in your control. Because if there’s if you rely on other people, if you rely on lots of different things to happen, you lose your power to make it happen. And I think the thing I’ve struggled with with this is doing it with the team and with other people who weren’t excited about the project as I was. And I think actually, I needed to get I needed to get get it done and get it out. And I think that was the most important bit was just get get it done. Get it out, get it started.

Okay, so you weren’t matched by the people involved with energy levels. I’m just I can’t help thinking that. That if that was me, if I’d done that podcast that I can’t help thinking you’d have just told me to stick it out there. Just do it anyway, and just get it done. And stick the first episode out. I’m wondering, I’m curious about what stopped you doing that because that’s a very Alan Donegan thing to do.

I didn’t have a platform to do it. I didn’t have a blog to launch on we had FET pop up. I could have launched it on you can’t put audio direct on Facebook. I hadn’t figured out iTunes. I’d not. I’d not I’d not found a way to actually get it out. And I just kind of went well, I didn’t. I didn’t have a good feeling recording it. So I’m not sure it’s a valuable episode. So I just kind of Yeah. Just lost momentum it died.

Momentum is key, isn’t it?

I think momentum, if you’ve got to build the energy to get it done, and then it’s got to start going. And then you’ve got to keep it going. The second time we did it. So for the rebel entrepreneur, you and I actually recorded episode, the first episode together. And we did it with Shawn. I was in Thailand. And we did it on an online piece of software. And the piece of software crashed after 17 minutes, but I didn’t know of an hour and a half recording. So we lost the whole first episode. And it crashed. And then that actually put me back two weeks, because I didn’t know how to do it. I didn’t know what to do next. That completely killed my momentum and progress. And it actually takes a lot to get yourself back up and do the next one. But I think that’s part of entrepreneurship is things will go wrong and you repeatedly have to pick yourself up and go again and pick yourself up and go again. But yeah, there’s been quite a few false starts that you have to get over to get going. And Caitlyn Caitlyn talks tall says, I wonder what the minimum equipment for a podcast is. Technically, you could just do one straight into your phone. You don’t even need something. If you want to get good sound, then having a microphone is useful. This one’s called an ATR 2100 is the one Brad and Jonathan use on choose their fi. Simon, you’ve got a different one because this one was not available in England. I got that one online for you.

Yeah, this one is called a cue to you. And it’s got a USB thing that plugs directly into the laptop, which I think yours does as well, doesn’t it?

Yes, it will plug directly into the laptop. So you can record straight to the laptop, and you could livestream over someone if you’ve got a virtual guest and record it, then you need a piece of editing software, there is a free one called Audacity, which is a like you can work it out a couple of YouTube videos, you can work out how to do it. But you could just get going with a microphone and Audacity free on your laptop and start creating something.

Okay, so I’m curious to know, what was the software you were using when we lost that episode? And by the way, that would have been such a really good episode because we were crackling with energy. It’s a real shame. Where it was no solder you were using. And what what are you using now? How does it work, it’s

called squad cast was the piece of software that didn’t work for us. And like I complained, they said sorry, but I just didn’t have faith in it. Because if you’re going to put all your energy into doing a podcast, and then it doesn’t record, it really messes things up. Now I actually use a mix of hardware and software. So the guests I have on the show are done through Skype. So we have a Skype thing, I have my microphone, and my microphone plugs into a little recorder. And it’s an audio recorder, I have a h six, zoom, h6. And it has two inputs, one for my microphone, and one for the laptop. So the guest is on a separate channel to the one for the microphone. So if you speak over each other, you can separate it. And then you can import that onto your computer and edit it. Luckily, because I’ve been doing it with Chuza phi, it’s incredible. They actually do the editing. And I haven’t actually had to do much editing, but I learned a few of the skills because I think it’s interesting to know.

Okay, I love this. So what about, you know, how do you? How do you go about getting guests? How do you go about writing the shedule? Because the speed at which we went from an empty page to a list of 2425 episodes. And what they were called was really quick. What was that process? Like for you? How did you decide what and who to get on the podcast?

So I, my primary focus with this is what does the audience need? So I’m doing it to help people build businesses and launch businesses. So my thoughts are, what do you need to get going? So it’s like, well, the first thing is five ways to start a business for free. And then I want to see an example of someone who’s done it. So we’ve got five ways to start for free. Then we’ve got Katie and Andrew from time trap escape rooms, and I interviewed them about how they built that escape room without debt. And I thought those were a great place to start, then we’ve got another startup story, then I’ve got well, okay, you need to come up with an idea. How do you evaluate the idea, and I’m running through my head, the steps we went through, and everyone goes through to launch a business, putting them down on paper, and then thinking who’s, who’s great examples for this. And I think I’m quite fortunate in this space, because I’ve spent the last 10 years building up a network of people. And this is what I do for a living. This is what I teach. It was really easy just to go okay, signing an IoT creativity. Start startup, Katie and Andrew brilliant. We’ll do that for free. And I made the list of people. I messaged them and said, Do you want to be on the show? And I haven’t had anyone say no yet. I just came up with this list of people invited them on and thought what’s the most valuable thing for the audience? And I think the key thing for our audience I’d like to highlight Simon, is that if you are doing a podcast about a subject you love, you will know what to talk about. Like if I do a podcast on finance, I could write you 20 subjects and get season one done really easy. If you asked me to do a podcast on cats and dogs and pets Like I’m allergic to cats and dogs, and I know nothing. And I would really struggle. And I think if you do something you love, it makes it so much easier.

Lovely. Alan, is this something that you’ve ever suffered with because I was one of the webinars that I ran today, the thing, leave some of the conversations reminded me of people that get paralysed. And I’m going to dive into some of the episode titles in a minute, and see if we can draw out some of the best nuggets of wisdom that came from some of the guests that you’ve had on this already. But just before we go there, have you ever experienced experienced the paralysis with a business idea or a business project? And if so, how did you get over it? You know, that thing where you go, I’ve got this really cool idea. And you just get it so far, and then you just kind of freeze? And then you lose momentum? And maybe it’s fear? Maybe its energy levels drop? Just talk. Can you talk to that for a second?

Yeah, absolutely. And I laughed your question, because you asked if I’ve ever felt it. And I thought the thought in my head was when have I not felt it? Every single project has had that feeling. At some point. I don’t care what project it is. I guess the question is, how long does it paralyse you for? And how bad is it? I had it several times with the rebel entrepreneur. And I think it was for a variety of reasons. When I first came in and pitched it a pop up and said, Let’s do this podcast. I think you said well, we’re thinking of doing one as well. And I was a bit crestfallen, like, Okay, well, you do yours, and I do mine, then whatever. And I was kind of stopped for a while. And then we came back and we chatted more. And then I pitched it to some of Henry and Jack and they were busy busy doing other things. They were focused on live events, and they got no energy back. And I’m like, Whoa, got no energy there. And kind of you put energy out there, and it doesn’t always come back. And sometimes it does. And then you just have to find a way to go, if this is really what I want to do. This is really what I want to do, then I need to get going. And I need to start somehow. And I think the magic I’ve discovered is, how can I get version one done as quick as possible. I don’t care if it’s not perfect, it needs to be done. So I just, I was like, we’re gonna record episode one. And I sent a message to you and Shawn and said, I’ve got the software, we’re doing it, we’re doing it on this date. And I think the magic is setting a date. So I know I’m going to do it on this date. I’ve got the people booked, everything has to be done by this date, or that’s it. And once you get that date in the diary, it’s amazing how you have to commit and get going amazing. So I would commit and make a date, make a plan and get going. Even then you might feel it afterwards with the editing and you’ve got to get yourself up for it. The biggest trick for starting and my wife actually uses my own teachings against me, Katie, which is amazing. She, the other day, I was like, Oh God, no energy to organise the podcast files, they all like a record them on a little SD card. And then they all just sit there. And I’m like, I’ve got no energy, I’m not excited. And she says said, could you do 15 minutes, Ellen was like, alright, I’ll do 15 minutes. So I went outside started doing it. Two hours later, I’d organised and done everything and hadn’t moved. But it’s that I can commit to 15 minutes. But if I’m trying to get it all done, I won’t start. But if I actually get myself start by giving my position, I’ll do 15 minutes. And then if it doesn’t work, I’ll quit. And I’ll come back the next day. That’s okay. So give yourself permission to finish. If 15 minutes doesn’t work, do it and then move on.

Beautiful, I guess like I was interested, as you were talking then about you were taking the idea and bouncing it off of different members of the team. And some of that inertia in the early days was because everyone’s busy. You’re not getting energy back. What about those folks that are watching that thinking, look, I’ve got a project that I want to start, but I don’t have a team to bounce it off of, you know, how would you recommend that they get started and you know, and just get over that hump of actually getting something done.

If you don’t have a team to bounce it off. In a way it’s actually easier, because you just have to do it. There’s nothing else so if we were to take podcasts if we were to pick someone Who is watching? Julian Julian G is a friend of mine. He’s watching. He does cycling. Julian. Hi, I’m going to use you as an example if that’s okay, please abuse mafia. Julian, he was, let’s say he was going to launch a cycling podcast. And he didn’t have a team and he just want to do it. He’s very into cycling, I’d say, well, all you need to do is on Amazon, or do yourself a microphone, get the microphone and start recording. So you go, okay, episode one, I’m going to interview some of these cyclists in the club, going to take my microphone, go down there, interview two or three people or put it into a podcast, or put it online. That’s it done, and promoted. And I think it’s actually easier without a team when you first start. Because you’re like, Well, look, it’s up to you. There’s no one else you can have an excuse that it’s not going to work. It’s only down to you. That’s it. So I think if you’ve got to decide, are you really willing to do it? And are you willing to pay the price to do it. Because there is a price to anything you want to achieve. It’s not normally financial, it’s normally energy, time, effort, ego, but you have to be willing to pay the price, then if you go, I really want this, and I’m willing to pay the price, then you just make it happen. I think where it stalls as you go, I really want this, but it seems like a lot of hard work. And I’m not really willing to pay that price. And I’m just going to go and sit on the couch and pretend order.

Yeah, just to build on that something that came up today, that’s been in my mind is, is linked to what you were saying about having the urgency to get stuff done, which is something that we often talk about pop up. I think what went through my mind earlier was how the way that I operate is that I get very excited for a new idea. And it burns really bright. And there’s nothing more important than getting that idea done right now. And but then in two or three days time, the energy is burnt out like phosphorus, and what looked like it was going to be a really cool thing. I haven’t quite pushed it over the line. And we were talking today about not not allowing your motivation to dictate your progress. Because some days you wake up and you feel like it. And other days, you just feel like you want to hide under the duvet or you’re a bit under the weather, or life takes over and you’ve got other stuff to do. And I love Katie’s advice about just biting off a little bit, you know, just taking 15 minutes and all of us can commit 15 minutes a day to keep the thing moving forward. Right?

You can find that time to do it, I think there is a place for energy comes in energy goes and going with it. But I think there’s a danger that. So if you’re not feeling it, have a break, take a rest and then come back and have another go. That’s perfectly fine. And I think that’s actually reasonable having a break. Sometimes tiredness is there for a reason, take a break. But if you’re someone who’s not done anything for six days, and you’re going are just not feeling it this week. That’s an excuse you, that’s something else. And I think you get motivation from doing stuff. I couldn’t motivate myself to start organising the podcast material. But once I started, I got motivated, and I finished it. So you got to start. And if you’re constantly every day going, I’m just not into it. I’m just not into it, then I’m doubting you’re into it at all. But if you can get yourself up for it and start and you do a bit a day and you feel the energy. It’s amazing how much that energy compounds and grows and fires. And then you keep going. But if you’ve worked for three hours, and you’re like, I can’t feel it anymore, have a break. If you’ve done nothing all day, get on with it.

And I think we I feel like we should tackle the subject of procrastination. But I decided to do that in a couple of weeks time instead. Yeah. One of the things that that has gone through my mind is just going back to the list of podcasts, one of the things that prevents people from getting stuff done putting stuff out there, taking action, and you know, picking up the phone, sending emails and so on is fear. And that was the first episode of the rebel entrepreneur podcast that that came out on Monday. And it was Jonathan with Jonathan, the co founder of choose fi what tips did you pick up from Jonathan because this guy has created a phenomenal Business, one of the what I think is the number one Financial Independence Podcast in the world, they get one to 2 million downloads every month. And we met Brad, who’s his business partner on Tuesday? What did Jonathan because Jonathan strikes me as someone who’s perhaps not scared of anything. What did you learn from him about fear?

I actually, I think the thing I learned from him is, he’s actually quite risk averse. So before launching this, he was a pharmacist. And they’re very risk averse people because they don’t want to kill anyone. And he actually did this in his spare time. So he didn’t take the risk of diving off. He didn’t take the risk of leaving his job. He built it alongside and launched this podcast with Brad, I think his genius partner was the was his genius moment was the partner he did it with, because they perfectly complemented each other. But they built it on the side. And they did it without risk, because they don’t put any money in. And I think if you can find a way to not risk what you’ve got, but do an experiment on the side, that takes away a lot of the fear. And I think the language of calling it an experiment. I’m going to launch podcasts and I’m going to do 15 episodes. That’s my experiment. If it works great. If it doesn’t, what have I lost a bit of time and I’ve had fun. And I think that can take a lot of the fear away from it with the language of experiment and reducing risk.

And wondering if we can get Shawn Jenkins on one of these live streams and Sean recorded a couple of episodes with you episode for his startup stories. Now. We met Shawn, in Charleston, Shawn sponsored a pop up business school. And it’s really interesting thinking about the word, the word startup stories, and Shawn Jenkins in the same sentence, because when I think about Shawn Jenkins, I don’t I don’t think of startup. Just just give us a few seconds about what you learned about what Sean’s achieved. And in particular, what jumped out of that particular episode, because I think that would be the one that I’m most excited to listen to. I haven’t listened to that one yet.

You have to listen to that one is phenomenal. So to set the scene, Sean Shan built a business in America. It’s a software business that does benefits for employees. He built it. David Young says he loved the episode was Shawn is a brilliant one, David. He built that business to two and a half 1000 staff and took it public. And he built it from nothing. He came up with the idea. And the stuff I learned about how he decided to launch software companies needed two main skills. He needed a to understand software development and be to understand sales. And between when he had the idea, and he launched the business, it was five years. And in those five years, he took jobs in software, and in sales, to learn the skills he needed to launch his business. When he focused on what are the skills I need, I’ll get good at it. And he he hated sales. And I think the bit that really struck me and I had exactly the same experience. Funnily enough, we took the same sales job, he sold photo copiers, I sold photo copiers. And he was he had social anxiety, and didn’t want to go into the room to do the sales meetings. And how he overcame that. Like it’s phenomenal the story. And I think that just gave me hope that this guy. He’s just a lovely person who had social anxiety and problems and all sorts, but he just was like, I’m gonna overcome them. I’m gonna focus on it. I’m gonna work on it. And he went out and learned the skills he needed and then launched a business. And I think the biggest takeaway I took was consciously deciding what skills you need to make your business successful, and then doing whatever it takes to acquire them.

Hmm, very nice. Very nice. We’re going to get jack on in a moment. We’ve had a few questions. So folks, if you’ve got any questions that you’d like to ask about how you make progress with your business ideas, whether it’s about podcasting, whether it’s something else entirely, if you’ve got questions about how to sell, how to market your ideas, and so on, then please stick the question in the stream now. Jack will come on very shortly and asked a few of the questions that have been posted already. And just before we Do that. And I’ve got a couple more thoughts from the the list of episodes here. Just before I ask them, how many how many weeks roughly did you take to record all of these episodes here cuz I think what have we got up to? Is it episode 25? Isn’t one

has 25 episodes. The majority of the recording was done in the space of about two weeks, maybe three.


But then I was quite keen, I got into my scheduling mode. And I was like, I’ll do episode one at 10 Episode 212 Episode Three at four. I sheduled them all in with guests. And once it sheduled in by you have to do it. You have to do it. That’s it.

So what are the other episodes that have jumped out? Are you the ones that are jumping out of me are things like Mike Essex, Mister Money Moustache? Now? No, that’s not his real name, folks. Those are a couple of the episodes that jumped out at me. Were they the same for you? Or were there others that you think actually no, this was the one that fired me up that gave me some new information and some new wisdom

I really enjoyed the one Mike Essex wrote a book called How to get free stuff every day. And it was really interesting book How to get free stuff. But I learned so much from him about how to get free things, how to offer it, how to pitch what value you’re returning, I enjoyed that. The sales one with James. And we had Patrick venues the ex sponsorship manager for Manchester United. So he’s responsible for multi multi million pound sales. That was really interesting talking through the sales process and how you do it and how you focus on it. And I think every episode had a different learning and a different bit. Mister Money Moustache was excellent. Some of his comments are so cutting. I told him about my dad’s car choice. And his reply was that’s financial suicide, isn’t it, Alan? And he’s very cutting very quick. And super smart. I think. Yeah, every episode has a different message and a different part and I’ve really enjoyed doing them. And if the people listening learn as much as I did doing it, they’re in for a wonderful ride.

Outstanding. Okay, so I think it’s time to raise the IQ of this evenings live stream, and somewhere hiding in a sauna. In the south of England is the mighty mechanical Jack ailing There you go are in a sauna.

I got locked in and all the staff left because lockdown I’ve been I’ve been in there for weeks.

Jack I I’m envious that I’m just in a bedroom. Alan’s in a spare room in his mom’s house. But somehow you’ve managed to get a five star sauna to run tonight’s live stream from we need to have a conversation about this. But I guess before I go on too much about your, your spa habits. Let’s talk about some of the questions that have come up in the live stream what jumped out for you? What do we need to what do we need to explore and riff on in the last last half an hour?

So what a question that caught my eye in the chat Alex I know it’s something that we’ve been discussing quite a lot this week at pop up Simon Naz Watts says I’m a business teacher at a secondary school in Southampton and pick up Southampton. What is your opinion on the most important thing that we should teach kids about starting a business for the future? Oh, I

love that question. That’s a great question. So nice. I’m from from Rumsey lived in Southampton. I think I’ve probably been into most of the schools in Southampton at some point doing enterprise related stuff. I’ve got some views on this. My eldest, my eldest did business studies GCSE. And when he came back after his first week, he said to me, I’ve decided that I don’t need to study for my business studies GCSE because I’ve got you haven’t I? So I don’t need to do it. And I know, and it doesn’t work quite like that son. But it’s interesting, because the very first module that he covered was, was about business plans, and how to write a business plan. And, look, it’s an interesting learning process to go through. But if you think for one minute that that’s the thing that’s going to teach kids how to start a business. And for those of you that no pop up business school, well, you know, we don’t do any business plans. We teach people how to sell and how to sell quickly. In fact, we still don’t have a business plan, and we’ve been running pop up for eight years. And we recently we thought it might be useful to have one at some point. But actually, we’ve just done it on the numbers and gut feel. And we make decisions based on the direction of travel, and focus on selling. So I think before I hand over to Alan on this one, because Alan, you’ve done, you’ve done a whole bunch of work in schools as well around stuff. And I’m thinking that the guy that we’ve got coming on on the live stream on Tuesday next week is an entrepreneur from Brighton. He’s now 29, he runs a business that turns over, just over 3 million pounds a year. He started his first business at 15. He went to the photocopier seems to be a thing tonight, photocopies. He went to the photocopier. In his school, he printed 5000 fliers, using school paper and photocopier and launched his business, which was his tech related business helping people with their computers, I think he was upgrading them, fixing them, and helping people learn how to use them. And that was his first business, there was nothing for him, that there was nothing in a business studies course, that would have given him the knowledge and skills to start his business. Actually, the thing that this guy needed was some practical help. And I think, you know, creating an environment where kids can experiment with business ideas, for real is the best gift that we can give teenagers. And you know, my dad’s making money by flipping clothing and trainers and so on. But he’s experimenting, it’s not writing anything down. There was no way I could get him to write anything down. But could he make his own Depop? Page? Yes. Could he get an Instagram following? Yes. Can you get 3 million views on tick tock? Yes. And that’s all of the stuff and giving the giving kids the freedom to be able to experiment, I think is the most exciting thing that we can do to help kids be entrepreneurial. But what do you recommend, and because you’ve been through this on both sides,

I’ve done a lot on both sides, I just add one thing very briefly, which is we need to teach kids it’s okay to fail. Because I think the school T system teaches there is a right or wrong answer. But in business, that’s just not the case. Because there’s so many different ways to do it. And what I would love business studies to teach is you just need to have a go fail, and then learn from it and have another go. Failure is seen as such a bad thing. And if we were to teach kids from an early age that it’s okay to fail. And then we’ll work out what’s next. And we’ll do it together. And as long as you respond well to failure, it’s a learning and it’s valuable. That’s okay. I think we will be doing Kids the World of power because they will be free to try stuff and get on. So I think teaching it’s okay to fail is one of the top ways to start.

I love that. And I think, you know, I spent nine months I managed Actually, it wasn’t quite nine months, Graham Carter will know this very well. It was more like eight 8.2 months, I lost it in education. I set up the Centre for Entrepreneurship in a college in the south of England. And I discovered very quickly that at the academic world and the business world doesn’t really mix too well together because of the need to draw down funding to deliver an educational qualification. It’s almost like like, Let’s do business studies. And that’s the qualification. Right? Now let’s talk about the real world and everybody. So let’s separate session instead of calling it business studies, we’ll call it business Dewey’s. And get a bunch of kids together that are interested in experimenting with making money and and like you say, and let them experiment and let them test and let them get it wrong. Because that’s where they’re going to learn. And that’s exactly what this guy is going to talk about next Tuesday. If we can get him which will be fantastic if we do. Well. Jack, what else before I get on my soapbox and I could go for about three hours on that subject without a breath. What other stuff caught your eye?

I’m looking here. We’ve got some we’ve got some podcast questions coming in. And Alan Theresa asks, was it difficult to tie down and get higher profile guests interested? What’s in it for them? So you always need to focus. Mainly I leveraged my network. So these were mostly people that I had met or knew from different conferences. If they weren’t, I would send out an email saying I’m launching this podcast, this is what it is. Here’s what I want to do. And I would always focus on what value I’m giving to them. So is it going to be fun? Is it going to put them in front of a new audience will I add value to their world? And I would focus on that I have yet to go for the really big guests like I don’t know a lord sugar or Richard Branson. Although I’m tempted because in lockdown everyone’s at home. So if there’s not a better time to get Guess it is now?

What else you got Jack?

And I saw a video online the other day of these two guys about online videos. And they had a competition to see who could they can manage there. It was it was it the six steps of Kevin Bacon or something like that. And they wanted to see between them who could get the most famous person on a zoom call because everyone’s sitting around doing nothing. And one of them got Dame Judi Dench, I think was the winner. No way. Because through online, they knew they found her grandson who makes online videos, and they were like, could you get your nanny to come on? Come on and get some give some of her wisdom, which I thought was fantastic. So yeah, you could get anyone as a guest if you try hard enough. Hello, Chris, from a podcast. How long do they need to be to be effective? So I think the answer to this is how, how much stuff have you got to talk about? Because I’ve seen podcasts that Hardcore History is two to three to four hours. Tim Ferriss, sometimes an hour and a half, two hours. And then I’ve seen other phone podcasts that are 10 minutes, 12 minutes, and they deliver one message and it’s great. I think it’s, it needs to be as long as it needs to be to deliver your message. If you’re waffling just to hit 40 minutes, that’s pointless. And I don’t think you need to be the same every time. Because sometimes I look down the list when I’m on a short journey. And I like I just need a 20 minute podcast. And other times I’m like I want a long one I need something to soak into. So I don’t think you should be restricted for a length. I think you should look at how long have I got content for. And if it feels like a good podcast, let it roll. If it doesn’t end it quickly and go shorter. There is no rule. I think a question mark was just thinking of like, from from your experience of recording the first series of rebel entrepreneur like what are the things you’ve learned to avoid doing while making a podcast? What makes a bad podcast? What are the things you should avoid at all costs? Energy Energy of the people, a bad podcast will have low energy, and it just won’t flow. It’s got to have the questions. And normally, if you’re the host, you’re going to have to keep the flow, ask the questions and keep people on track. I think sometimes your guests can go off on one about a subject that maybe is not what you want. She then need to find a way to reel him back in and get back on subject. But for me, it is the energy of the conversation and the openness and wrongness of it. If you can get someone who’s open and really honestly tells you what’s going on. It’s unbelievable. If you can’t, and they’ve got their guard up and it’s low energy. I did a radio show years ago. Worst ever episode was the mayor of Basingstoke. He came on, he wouldn’t answer anything. He said, Oh, I can’t be political because I’m the mayor were a political. So then I asked him like stuff about Basingstoke, and he gave me the most boring non political answers in my life. If people aren’t willing to commit, you’ll get nothing. So yeah, never interview the mayor of Basingstoke.

Hey, go kids. You heard it here. First, the pop up business school Facebook page. Never interview, the mayor of Beijing state Jack crossed that off the list. That was going to be next Thursday. Let’s get let’s get the mayor Ramzi instead. Because I’ve heard that my Ramzi kind of cuts it up a bit rougher. And so I noticed the question that Helen Lawson has been very patient because I think she asked it ages ago, right up the fee. Now I just remembered it seeing her name on there again. Hi, Helen. The question that she was asking was about how you make that decision of putting time and effort into creating a podcast, versus putting my time and energy in the core business? What’s your thought processes around that? And like, how can we help Ellen, figure out where her time and energy needs to go? And in what order it happens?

Is the core business making you money? Is it delivering what you need it to deliver? And where are you going to earn money from in the future? Are you looking to transition to a podcast and then make your money there? Or is the podcast tool to bring in business for the original business? And I think there’s so many questions to that. I think if You directly make money by selling your time, I every time you do a coaching call, you get paid X amount of pounds, then every hour you spend away doing a podcast is an hour away from earning. If it’s not a direct thing, if you’re selling a product, and then you can spend more of your time promoting through a podcast or other things, I think there’s so many questions, that’s a really difficult thing to answer. But I will be asking the questions. Where’s your long term future? Where’s the money coming from? Will a podcast actually benefit and help you build that future? And there’s a whole host of questions that we need to know the answer to to work out where the time is spent.

Jack, what was that app you mentioned earlier, which might be a faster way to help people test podcast ideas, rather than because on Seiken? You know, plug in the microphone use and recording software, edit the thing properly, you know, and post it and so on. But there is a faster way of doing it. For those people that just want to experiment and put something out there, isn’t there? What was that called again?

Yeah, so we found an app called Anchor. I think I think I heard it before we found it from a Gary Vaynerchuk some kind of podcast or blog, does that good anchor, whether that shows up? There we go. It should that should be available on both Apple and Android. So and that’s kind of just the it’s a good app to kind of like with your training wheels on you can kind of record it. You can kind of clip it together and stitch it all together in there. It’s quite the user interface is quite nice to use. So before you fully jump straight in maybe using that like that. I’m sure the ROM is available. But just like the stuff on your phone, I think when you fully get into it, the sound quality is important. But when you just give it a go and seeing if it’s for you did a classic pop up way and just work of what you’ve got start with Simon, of course, a comment I saw come in which I loved. It’s all about the network. Julian ghee is a friend of the mayor of Rumsey. We’ve got the guest for next week or there’s going to be okay. Thank you Julian Julian.

Julian. Jay, you are a legend. I was actually this is exciting for everybody. I was born in Rumsey hospital. So I have I have I feel connected to the mayor of Rumsey by that fact. And now I feel connected by Julian as well. So maybe we should get them involved. If Wait a minute, did they run a business? Are they an entrepreneur, if they were entrepreneur, let’s get them on. I love Jack well spotted.

We’ll find the connection. Caslen asks, Caitlin. So if I mispronounce that, how do you podcast generate income? How do you monetize a podcast? I think there’s so many ways to do that. So many ways to monetize a podcast. Let me give you a couple of examples. One of my favourite examples is Social Media Examiner. They have a huge social media, podcast. And they use that podcast, they do the podcast every week, every, every week of the year. And they sell one event a year, called Social Media Marketing World, which is a global conference on social media. So the entire podcast is just designed to sell tickets to that event, but they give away so much value in the podcast, they make money from that event. So you could use it to build an audience and sell an event to you could do what’s called affiliate links or affiliate marketing, whereby you talk about a product or service or link to it in the notes. And then every time someone buys it, you would get a commission for doing it. You could sell your own products, you could sell your own service. There’s so many different ways to do it, you can get advertising, there’s so many ways to do it. I guess the thing I would ask is, who is your audience? And what’s their biggest problem? Because if you can work out who the audience is, and who the what the problem is, then you can sell them something to fix it. And whether that’s your product or someone else’s doesn’t really matter because you can earn commission either way. And that would be my focus is what’s the problem your audience is facing?

I guess just reminded me that I think Hardcore History started with a Donations button wasn’t alone. You just asked for donations and they were absolutely overwhelmed with the amount of money that came in.

Yes, they I think they did they use Patreon or was it a different one, but they did. They asked for donations to say we will keep producing the content, but we need money to do it. Please can you donate some money per episode? And that was how they did it was incredibly successful. If you’re producing content that people truly value, and you ask for support, they will support you. If no one supports you that tells you how much they care about your service, which can be quite painful if it’s not working. For you, I’ve got another question. But before we jump into that, back to the stranger side plot of the mayor of Ramsey that these lawsuits have ever had. The mayor of Ramsey was one time the director of an ad agency with Julian. So

the script, my favourite subject. Let’s have an advertising related podcast with the mayor of Ramsey. Yes, please, Julian, let’s make it happen.

And Julian should come on for that episode. He has been in marketing for a long time and is very good at it.

I’d love that. Yes. You’ve been marketing for. Julian, you’ve been involved with an agency in the south very recently, that’s doing marketing for small businesses. So we’d love that. Yes. Let’s get Julian on with my Ramzi brilliant idea. Definitely do Oh, my

goodness. This. The problem is I know us this is going to happen now that anyway. Teresa, says, Alan, do you let your guests know beforehand? What questions you’re going to be asking, or do you just let it organically happen as you chat? I normally give them a list of subjects that they feel comfortable, but not necessarily the specific questions. And I think, for me, it is like I’d loved. If I was saying to you, Jack, I’d love you to be on the podcast. Broadly speaking, I want to talk about YouTube, building a channel how to promote it. And I’d give a list of subjects. That’s enough to make your guests feel comfortable about what is going on, and what they’re getting themselves into. And then when they arrive, you ask the questions you dive in, it feels more fresh if you don’t give away all of your questions to start with. I think just just before we wrap up tonight, it’s we’re approaching the 10 o’clock mark, I think as a two parter, What have people got to look forward to for the series because I know we’ve got a new episode coming out every Monday for the rest of time. But also, what was your favourite episode? What was the one that stuck with you the most? I love the Shawn Jenkins Episode Episode Four.

I remember the ones before you answer Ellen remember the ones that I was in? Yeah, let’s just let’s not jump in. Let’s not jump in too quickly with an answer. Let’s let’s think about this carefully.

Yes, the Simon episodes were quite average.

Jack, write that down.

You should just listen to the episodes. And actually so Dan Dart is listening. And he says Love you guys. But people like me want to start a business with my woodwork. And all I can hear is you talking about podcast businesses. You could start a podcast about woodwork if you want Dan, or you could do what the guest on which episode is Matt Simon. There’s a guy called Matt who came on the podcast, he did a brilliant episode, all about building a business about your passion. He’s built a channel on YouTube about woodworking with over 150,000 subscribers and makes all his income doing what he loves on YouTube. Like, I think it’s about taking these thoughts and ideas and applying it to the business you’ve got. And not being like you’ve got to not be stuck on the one thing. It’s thinking broader about the different things.

Yeah, I love that. Dan, it’s great to see you on here. Dan’s from pop up business school in Yeovil and he’s very skilled at what he does. And he’s he’s got his own shed, but his workshop where he’s been making stuff down, you definitely need to go to the pop up Business School Survival Guide, Jack’s put the link at the bottom of this thread. Click on that and then scroll down the page and look for the episode with Matt IsaLean. I think it was something like our fourth or fifth episode or something like that. That’s the one that Alan’s talking about. That is the one that you absolutely must watch. I’ve got no interest in whatsoever until I watched and listened to Matt and that he made me want to get involved in this stuff. So I know you’re going to get a whole bunch of ideas from that as well for sure. Any more Jack, should we call it a day is anything else jumped out any more mayors from small towns across the south stepped up for interview?

Nothing else yet, but I’ll keep you. I’ll keep you engaged. We’ll end with just a tiny little question like in the current global climate is now still a good time to start a business It’s a time where business has changed. It’s a time where life has changed. But in any moment of change, there is knockout opportunity, you just need to find it. And I think there is no good time to start a business, you just have to get on with it. I started my business, my first one in oh eight at the height of the crash. And it was a tough time. But actually, there’s most businesses closing down that time and I was opening up. And it was, I was doing the opposite of everyone else. And I think there’s never a good time to launch a business just need to get on with it, and make it happen. And I think, stop looking at what the world is doing and what everyone else is doing and focus on what you’re doing is my advice.

I love that. And I think we will never get another opportunity like this, to have so many distractions of busy day to day lives that have been forcibly removed. And I think it’s all about how we look at that opportunity and how we take the chance to use that time wisely. The thing that excites me the most is because the world has changed. There is this really cool moment where if you can, if you just wanted to zoom in on something that excites you something that you’re passionate about, go and do that, talk about it, make videos about it, write a blog about it, stick it in a book, you know, contact people and ask them to buy the thing that you’re making or the service that you’re offering, whatever it is picking something that excites you and going out of your way to add value to the people that would be most excited and interested in what you’re doing. Worry about whether it’s a business later, just take the opportunity now to experiment with the stuff that you think you’re going to enjoy. And then the business stuff will roll from that I just feel sure of it. And there’s no better time to do it than right now. I really think that

Rebecca was very disappointed. We didn’t answer her questions. So just to say to her, I will go through it tomorrow and make sure I answer all the questions that I missed by typing answers. So if I missed your questions, anyone who’s listening tonight, I am sorry. I will go back through it tomorrow and answer those questions. I did that today for the one with Brad on Tuesday. And I’ll do it again. Tomorrow. We stuff Yeah, sorry. We can’t get to everyone’s questions. We will squeeze some more in as we go ahead. I think just to wrap up, Alan, for people who have no idea what we’re talking about, what is the rebel entrepreneur podcast? And why should they listen? The rebel entrepreneur podcast, I created it because I wanted to smash the belief that it takes money to make money. And actually on that Dandara in the comment goes, I can’t build a business because I’ve got no money like this, the whole podcast was done because of this is there’s this belief that you need to get money first, to launch. That’s what I work. And I spend those episodes trying to destroy that belief and show you ways to build business with no money. That’s the whole purpose. It’s completely free. You can download it and just go to choose forward slash rebel. You put the link in the notes. Thank you, Jack, and just start listening. The whole purpose of the podcast is to help you build businesses and make money doing what you love. That’s it. That’s what I want to do.

That sounds brilliant. I don’t know might listen to that. Jack, you’re a legend in your own pants and in your sauna. Alan you are as always a what’s the word? I’m looking for a beacon of lockdown hair. Thank you very much everybody for watching, and listening. We’re gonna post this on the pop up Business School Survival Guide, as we do with all of our videos that we’re making. And on Tuesday next week, fingers crossed. We’ve got an entrepreneur from sunny Brighton who is going to share some phenomenal startup story stories with us and share with us what he thinks next Thursday, we’ve got a life and money coach, Jillian johnsrud, all the way from Montana in America. She is going to be joining us for that live stream. And she’s actually done a little bit of coaching with me back this time last year, and her coaching style and sessions were phenomenal. And I know that there’s lots of value in that as well. So thank you, everybody. Have a fantastic bank holiday weekend and we will see you very soon. Well