How to Win at Instagram with The Social Hop | Business Survival Livestream 012

Simon and Katie are joined by Halima Salim, founder of The Social Hop and Blackboard English to talk about how you can WIN at Instagram and tips for an online course. RECORDED LIVE: 23rd April 2020

Note: This transcription has been generated with AI and there may be errors present. 


We live. We, um, we are, I think, yeah, that little red button comes up in the top left hand corner. And I have this moment of, oh, no, have I said something? Have I said something? Like, we’re not we’re here. And I’m just going to talk for a few moments whilst some folks jump onto the live stream. And they will notice that the level of intelligence and looks has gone up this evening. Because we’ve got Katie and Halima, we’ve got Katie and lemur everybody and like, if you listen very closely to the speaker, you can hear rapturous applause. And it’s fantastic to see both of you here. Look at those. There’s a lot of teeth and I was smiling because

I’m doing more teeth. I’m doing more teeth, because she’s got so many teeth. I thought. She’s got great teeth and competition. She got great teeth.

Amazing thing. Yes. So I guess the subject that we’re going to dive into this evening is this. How do you win at Instagram? That’s definitely something on my mind tonight, which is one of the reasons that we’ve invited Halima, I think we’re going to dive into just generally social media stuff. And and I’d love to know Katie’s views, because I’ve got a funny feeling. You’re not a massive fan of social media, but you’ve done more of it since joining power business school, or maybe there’s some social media that you’d like more than others. So we’re going to get into that we’re going to get into, you know, what are the thought processes that we go through? When we’re thinking about growing a business on social media, we’re going to find out what Halima has learned. Halima is running online courses as well, Katie ran some online courses for pop up recently. And as you know, we like to plan those in advance for quite a long period of time, I reckon you must have had about 25 minutes notice before we decided to do that, if you don’t include the hours that you’re asleep for. So we’re gonna talk about, you know, the difficulties and the challenges, but also the cool things about delivering online courses. We’re going to talk about women in business, we’re going to talk about handling trolls and negativity online. We’re going to talk basically, we’re going to talk about whatever the hell we want. But that was my sort of starter for 10. So if you don’t like any of that, everybody, then just stick a question in the group and go, can you stop talking about that? And so something else instead, and I’m fully after that tonight, I just seen your background? Halima? It says you’re a fearless learner. I love that. Can you see that? Yes.

Missing because it fell. But yeah, that’s

it. We’re gonna start a hunt for this group. Where is her Leamas apostrophe that’s going to be the next challenge we go for but in between all of this stuff. Halima. Welcome. And Katie Coombs, welcome. brilliant to see you guys. Halima. What are you doing here? How on earth did this happen?

Such an awesome story. If I say so myself.

It’s your story. You it’s already awesome.

And so what part of the story exactly?

Well, I guess let’s dive into let’s go straight into how how we met actually, let’s start there. Because I think we’ll start there. And then we’ll go back to the stuff that you were doing prior to pop up. And then we’ll talk about the business that you launched after pop up because I think there’s a really nice link there. And then we’ll meander our way around that and I’ll bring Katie into.

Awesome. Okay, so last year I met pop up. I think it was in November. I’m pretty sure it was in November. I should know the exact day. I mean, such an important time because so much happened after that. And before that, I’m just going to be honest with you. I didn’t have any friends in London, because I’ve been travelling around before that I was outside the country for 10 years. So I came back and I was a tourist. And I didn’t know anybody or my school friends had moved on and had kids and you know what I mean? So it was hard for me to come back and it was like so so difficult at that time because I didn’t know what to do like I was like feeling really down and I didn’t know how to make friends because let’s face it like it’s so hard to make friends in England I think in London. I don’t know I did so like in London. I found it difficult because I’m an introvert and just going in going in front of someone and saying hello is very, very difficult. So I met Simon at pop up I remember it was At 10 o’clock, on a Monday morning, I actually had a business course the few days before that I had to go to and I paid money for that one, it was around 60 pounds. And I decided not to go, I don’t know why, but I was like, this doesn’t give me the vibe that is going to help me. I didn’t want to go anywhere that I would waste my time. So then I decided to go to this free business school, I was like, this is for sure. Gonna be really, really bad. I was like, expecting it. I was I’m gonna be honest, it was just, I thought that it wasn’t going to be very good. And I always sit right at the front. And I was like, Okay, let me give them a chance. And it blew me away. It was like, I had been studying business for a very long time. I think two years and a half at that point, I think around that time. And I knew, Okay, I was like, I’ve learned I’ve learned the bad way to do business. And I learned the good way to do business. And it was just like lots and lots of like, knowledge bombs being dropped. And I was like, I paid 1000s and 1000s of dollars for this knowledge. And I was just looking around and like, does anybody know the secret? Like does anybody know that? All this information is like worth so much money. That’s what was going on in my head. And I was just blown away. I was like, this is incredible. So like I knew one

of our best students that week. Sorry. Sorry to interview one of our best students that week, you sat in the front every day, they made notes. You asked us really really tricky questions. I remember that. Because you could give me more knowledge. Give me on March. I’d love that. And just before we move on, I just wanted to say we’ve got a bunch of lovely welcoming faces. There’s a lot of pop up people in the in the live stream at the moment. We’ve got Helen Joanna Kim Rania, Lisa, we’ve got Julian Hi, Julian from the town where I was born down in Romsey Graham Carter’s back, the lovely Patricia, from the London pop up crew, Alan Evans, Elizabeth. We’ve got Alia Alia are your friends with audio, she said, Halima. I’m so sad to miss this. I’m on a conference call. And I can’t wait to watch the recording. So that’s all good. And colleagues here, me and Steven so on. Steven saying he went to Newport, cos he’s doing really well three, three years old and learned a lot, which is fantastic. So thank you for your nice comments. I’ll pay you later. For anyone watching. We didn’t put your thoughts. But what a lovely thing to say. And I’m so glad that you took value from it. And the thing that’s on my mind is that before you came to pop up, you already had an Instagram account with a big following, right? And but let’s talk about that. What was that thing that you launched? And how did that roll?

So I’m an English as a Second Language teacher. And I’ve been doing that for seven years now. And I decided to go online. And the reason why I went online actually started with YouTube. And then I opened up Instagram. And the reason I did that was because I had a vision I want. I was in a classroom in Saudi Arabia. And I thought, wow, it feels great to be teaching 30 students, what would it be like if I could teach more than 30? Students? What if I could reach more people? And that’s how YouTube and Instagram started.

And what was it like for you going on Instagram and YouTube? You know, did you have any fear of doing it? Because you said you’re an introvert. And if you’re anything like me, I was really nervous. And I’m going to ask Katie a similar question in a minute. What was it like for you when you first started posting videos online and putting out your content?

Okay, so I was absolutely terrified. I think if you if you could find anybody more terrified than me, I would be surprised at that time. So it was very, very uncomfortable for me to be to take pictures of myself to record videos to go live. Everything was scary. And it was just completely opposite of my personality. Even as a young child, I would run away my mom tried to take pictures. So you have like pictures of my entire family and my hand running away like in the in the picture. So I really did not like anything to do with videos, cameras. I just I was a shy child and as an adult introvert and I didn’t like being centre of attention.

So you don’t like being centre of attention. The photographs of you as a child mind. You got, you’ve got like 16,000 followers on just one of your account. What was the thing that made you keep going because because if you’re terrified you’re scared and you did it but you carried on doing yet, what was the thing that went in your mind that when you know, I’ve done a few now, I’m gonna keep going, what? What went through your head, this is amazing.

I think it’s, it’s because I’m a resilient person, so I don’t give up easily. And especially if it’s something that I want to achieve, I want to reach a million on YouTube. And that’s like my dream. And that’s something that like, keeps me going, I’m like, Okay, I will reach to that point where I will be better. And there’s people around me as well, that would encourage me to keep going and, you know, make me feel better. I remember, like recording videos, and just blinking so much. That’s what I do when I’m like, super nervous, I blink a lot. And if you go to, if you go to Blackboard English, actually, after watching this, you can do that. You can go and watch my first video ever. And it’s absolutely horrible. Like, it’s just horrible. Like, I’m so stiff. And I’m like, Hi. Like, it was horrible. But I did it. And people still make fun of me when they go back to those videos, but I’m like, that is that’s like my battle scars. You know, like, I feel proud that I kept going. And I think I heard someone saying, once you, whatever you do, if you if you do it, like in a bad way, if you keep doing something in a bad way, whether you like it or not, you keep getting better. So eventually, you will get that. So I just had that in my head. I’m like, Okay, you keep getting better. And I’m a perfectionist. So all my videos, I used to take, like around three days for one video. So a whole day of recording, stopping. I’m like, that wasn’t good enough. And I’ll do it again. And I’ll do it again. And it was it was terrifying, but I just kept doing it.

I love that. I’ve got so many questions, but I want to do is to give an opportunity to people that are watching. And we’ve got a bunch of people that are tuned in to find out. How do you take an Instagram account from zero to 16,000? How can you make these videos and stick them out there and all of the tech the techniques that you use and the tips and tricks, I know you’re going to be very generous because you always give away all of your best stuff whenever we spoken, which is amazing. I feel by the way, I feel very humbled that you sat through the pop up business school social media day, when you came to our event last year, and you had 16,000 followers, and you didn’t tell anybody until that day, which is amazing. I love that right? So I’m gonna invite people to post their questions in the thread, Jack will put a link to your Instagram page at Blackbaud English and he’ll put a link to your YouTube channel as well. He’ll pin that inside the thread so that people can then click on that and so on. We’ve all heard you’re going to love this. We’ve already got a couple of people. So Helen, Helen Lawson, who Katie knows very well, Helen has posted. I saw her Leamas page today. I can’t believe she had any fear. She’s sensational, so warm and natural, which is exactly what comes across. And I want to get Katie in on this one now. So, Katie, let’s talk about this thing. Like we’ve basically bullied you into doing so. Sure media since you joined pop up a couple of years ago now is coming up two years. It’s about two years now. Isn’t it? Something like that?

Is it two? Yeah, two years? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So life’s never quite been the same since then. And I make no apology for that, as you know. But we bullied you into social media. How much social media were you doing before pop up? And I know that you’ve done some videos. In fact, we got you to do a video before you joined the team as well. What was your experiences of making videos and sticking yourself on social media?

Oh, God before pop up. Not nothing. I didn’t do anything on social media. I didn’t like talking to the camera. Look, to be honest, if I’m really honest, now, this is really uncomfortable position for me. So when I get a message from you, or jack to come on here, I always say Yeah, can’t wait. And there’s an element of me that can’t wait. And there’s another part of me that she’s like, Oh, God. And that’s all I think about all day.

Sorry about that. Do you want less notice next time? Should I just texted back 10 minutes before?

Because? Well, it’s just it’s just who I am. And rather than there was the old me would have found an excuse. The old me was I’m not available or something’s going on. But kind of what pop ups taught me is just go for it. And I just think, Oh, well, what the hell? How bad can it be? What’s the worst thing that can happen? And so I always do it. And I I’ll admit that I don’t watch myself back. I’ve not got to that point. Yeah, I don’t want to see myself back. Because in case it throws me a little bit, so it’s not a it’s not a natural place for me but then neither is standing in front of people and talking. It’s not a natural place for me but it’s like a almost like a forced that sounds like really uncomfortable. A fourth state that I put myself in Because I know that when I do it, the benefits of it and how I feel afterwards and even during our amazing, amazing so doing this, this tonight is a it’s a push, it’s uncomfortable. It’s when I talk about a proper business school. It’s really uncomfortable. And then the other day when I was doing this on Zoom, I’m not sure if it was onto you. Or it was, it was Alan. And Lindsey, my wife bought me a cup of tea. She just brings me a cup of tea thinks she wants to get a face on the camera. And and then afterward she when you pouting at the camera when you’re on Zoom. Well, I’m not sure what you’re counting. I’m not very pouty person. When you pout you do that face when you look in the mirror? Do you know that mirror face we all have that we’re not really aware of we all do it. And then when people point out you like What do you mean? That’s just my face, but actually, I have no idea. And that really threw me as well. So I wish you hadn’t said that now. So yeah, so I’m struggling with this the whole time. I’m struggling with the whole time, but I’m also having great fun doing new things pushing myself and that’s where that’s where life is, isn’t it?

Anyway, do you parents? Halima do

Perry? Like I was thinking about something. Yeah. The mirror pouting thing. I have my own pouting, which is the blinking like I said, blink a lot. And that’s, it’s weird, but it’s yeah, I completely understand though. Katie. I think we have the same vibe when it comes to this whole like, video thing. And and it surprises me every time someone says, oh, my god, please teach me how you go in front of the camera and just appear so natural. I’m just like, are you talking to me? Like what’s going on here? Like, I don’t understand what’s happening. So I completely get it. Like I it’s completely uncomfortable. And for those of you watching and thinking, Okay, how do I like, get over that? And I’ll tell you from my experience is I just kept doing it. Yeah, I just kept pushing that that live button, I kept pushing that record button. And that was the only way I got over my fear of recording video. I like there’s no other way I can tell you like, okay, like, there’s like a shortcut where you just transform. And another thing is one more thing sorry you can add to that is, is when you be kind to yourself when you make mistakes, because I used to like you basically internally bully myself every time I would make a mistake in front of the camera and start all over again. embrace those little mistakes that you make and just say, oh, excuse me. Oh, you know, this is what I meant. Just like you would if you were talking to a friend outside in the streets.

I mean, your your videos, do you do come across the supernatural? And it does. It does remind me of what it’s like meeting you in person. So I think your your strategy of and I think you’re probably not that deliberate, I think you’re kind of going I’m just going to be me on the camera. And that was, to me, that’s what makes your videos so much more engaging. And I think I’m interested to know, was it a sliding scale? Have you gradually got more confident the more videos that you did? Or was there a moment you know, after video number 20 Your video number five or video number 70 That something clicked and you went? Yeah, that’s yeah, I mean, I this is my I’m in my flow now. And and I you know, what was your experience of that?

I think you just stopped feeling as uncomfortable. I think even Katie, like right now. I’m uncomfortable. You know, it’s I pretend I’m not

sorry. We haven’t even got to the tough questions yet. You can’t be uncomfortable. Yeah.

No, it’s just the idea is like that. You will get uncomfortable and there’s like a percentage of being uncomfortable. But what I’ve noticed is that being uncomfortable, is greater. I mean, the discomfort is greater when I stop. So if I take a break for like three months, and I don’t record a video, it goes it comes back for some reason. It’s like you’re starting all over again. So it’s, I’ve definitely noticed that it’s a doing it everyday thing, making sure that you are being consistent when it comes to recording videos.

Cool. I love this. Okay, so there’s a question from from the lovely Lisa como in Somerset. Lisa’s asking a question, which I’m going to kind of add a bit to and by the way, the questions that you have about Instagram, in particular YouTube to running online courses, please post your questions in the thread. If you want to know about how to use Instagram Stories effectively how to choose the right hashtags, what time of day to post how regular posts Halima has got a view. And she’ll give you her opinion, she’s got lots of experience of doing it. Every time I turn around, you’ve launched a new Instagram account, which is very exciting. Talk about the other stuff that you’re doing. But, look, I guess the question from Lisa is, she wants to get her message out there. And she started, she started off by going, you know, should I use Facebook? Or should I use Instagram? And I know it’s a personal choice, and depends on where your customers are. I’m interested to know why you chose to then launch an Instagram account, after you’d started doing YouTube videos, what was your thought process behind diving into Instagram? And then we can get into some of the detail about how you grew it?

Okay, so that’s a good question. So, at the end of the day, you have to think about your ICA. And I know, I’m like a broken record, when it comes to the ideal customer avatar, which is the person you’re trying to attract, you really have to have them in your mind when you are doing anything in your business. And I think pop up business teaches us that as well, at the very beginning is like, know who your ideal customer is. And then she will give you or he she or he will give you the answer to your question. So, I mean, and I always, I’m always saying this, and I feel like sometimes we have to say things a million times for people to understand, I know for me, I had to hear it so many times, but don’t like make that don’t make the same mistake. Don’t like wait for 345 people to say the same message again, and again, for you to kind of put on your head that your ICA is the one that you should be like referring to. So for me, my students hang out the most on Instagram, they’re there. And on YouTube. So there’s two different things. So on Instagram, they want to they don’t want to see long videos, people are starting to create long videos. So they’re learning about that more. But there’s, with YouTube, a lot of countries block YouTube. So for example, Iran, they can’t see YouTube videos. So Instagram, they’re able to see IG TV stories and so on. So that’s like some of the reasons but you have to know what where your ICA is at. And, and, like recently, I just asked my like for, for the social hop business, I actually asked my see, and she said, I hang up on LinkedIn the most. I was like, Cool. So that’s where I have to be. She’s not on Instagram, because if she was on Instagram, she wouldn’t need my help. Right? Yeah. So that’s why you have to ask her, you have to actually get on a call and talk to your ICA.

Cool. And if you are launching, so let’s say your ice. I love that. So I’ve never heard that before. So your ideal customer avatar. So when you’re scrolling down, you kind of go, yes, she’s my customer, or he’s my customer, and then you start following them, I wouldn’t, I would just I’m really interested to know that base, because all of the learning experiences that you’ve had of launching an Instagram channel, and I know you’re doing some others as well, I’m going to ask you for the addresses of those so that we can pin them in the thread in a second. If you are launching an Instagram account tonight, what would be the first few things that you’ll be doing? I imagine that you kind of knew what you were going to be doing. You had you had an idea of who your ideal customer Avatar was, what are the first few actions that you start with? To get something from zero or a very, very new account, you know, to get it into shape, what’s what goes through your mind, I think the most I’m gonna make notes by the way.

So think value, okay, you want to be sorry, this is like shining, you want to value is the word you should be thinking about when you’re on any platform, you want to deliver value to the people that are following you. So if you can’t do that, and you’re just like focusing on yourself, and you’re thinking, Oh, I’m going to post a pretty picture about myself, it’s not going to work, the quality of the content has to be very, very high. So that’s number one is that the quality of your content is very high. Why should the quality of the content behind is because it will be shared a lot more when the higher the content, quality, the more shares you’ll get. So the idea is like, first of all, I would say do not focus on followers. I don’t focus on followers. I really, really don’t. Especially at the very beginning you will get frustrated because you’ll get one mic a month or something and you’re like, oh my god, this is not working. Don’t focus on followers and a lot of programmes online will teach you okay, like, this is how you can get followers in these like really, really weird ways. And I’m just like, I hate that so much. Don’t focus on followers. Focus on the people that are already following you even If it’s one person and focus on really like enchanting them and making them feel like, this is incredible, you know what I mean? This is content that I can really, really use, and it can help me I’m going to go and do whatever they just told me to do. So that’s that’s what I would think about if I was just starting out is like creating content. That’s excellent. And then putting it out there for people to to have value because I think if you’re looking if you’re a business, you need to give someone value way before they ever purchase from you. And it Salima, go ahead, Katie,

I was just gonna say Halina. So when you’re starting with this content, are you thinking about your ideal customer? Your ICA at that point? Yeah. And you’re thinking, how can I serve them? What do they need from me? And how can I help? In the first instance? Yeah,

exactly. And there’s like different categories you can go through to do that. But the first thing I always tell students is that I always call my Instagram students, students, too, because of my English. I’m an English teacher. So I call everyone’s do now but

yeah, students, we’re all your students.

But yeah, I’m sorry to go back to your question. You said, thinking about your ideal customer avatar. So what problems are they facing at the moment in time? And so again, going on a call with them and making notes like, what do you need help with? How can I help? And you can you don’t have to go on a call actually, like does does not the only thing you can do you can actually go on Instagram, I mean, not Instagram. So you can go on YouTube and type like, you know, things like Instagram, and watch videos of other people and then go on the comments, people will be asking questions, make note of that and put it aside, your customers will share so much information, I don’t know how to do this, I don’t know how to do that make have a database of all these topics, just put them aside. And then when it comes to making content, you can just refer to that. So some of the things is like questions they would ask about your products, for example, what kind of, is it? Oh, god, oh, is it organic? Or why is it organic? Or whatever it is, you answer that question in a post, you are giving them value. For example, like, if it’s a product, and your ideal customer wants to know if that thing is organic, then a post about it being organic is super important.

So Alima, when you’re thinking about your ideal customer, and you’re posting what really isn’t information, isn’t it? You’re trying to help them? what point do you get to where you want to convert them? So at the moment, they’re their followers, their fans, and they’re looking at your social, but you want to turn those followers into paying customers? Okay? How do you move them forward into a paying customer to get them to? Okay, the cash?

Really good question. Man. That’s something I learned the hard way. Because what I did was, I had my Instagram account, like it was free, I didn’t tell anybody to do anything, and or buy anything for a long time, until someone came up to me and requested. But what you need to do is before you have an Instagram account, if you already have one, that’s fine, but remember that Coca Cola would never like, open up an Instagram account and just kind of like, not be known for their products. So they they have a product first is what I mean. And then they will have a page on YouTube or whatever it is that they want to promote. So have the product first have a package even if it’s just one to one where the person is like, Okay, can I work one to one with you have that ready, and post that in your bio, so that they know, okay, if I, if I want to work with this person, I’ll be able to work with them. And I know it’s not just a It’s not for fun, or it’s not for a hobby, this person is actually a business and being aware of that yourself. And then making them aware that you are a business is such an important part of like thinking, Okay, I really want to hire them the next time. I want to buy cake for my friend. And so making that consciously available to them, like the information is so important. Like if you’re a photographer, for example, show behind the scenes of you taking pictures, or if you’re a baker, you’re in the kitchen making the bread. So actually showing them okay, this is what I do. And if you want like subconsciously telling them that if you want my services, this is what I do. So you’re staying on top of mind and you’re letting them know about your services in different ways. That’s,

yeah, that’s good. I was gonna say, Do you ever feel as though you’re giving too much away?

Never. Okay. Yeah, never ever giving too much away. Another method is well is like also getting, trying to get your people don’t. I know, I’m an Instagram like specialist or whatever, but I always say get them off Instagram, do your best to get these people off Instagram, because it’s not your plan. It doesn’t belong to you. And things change so quickly that you have to be less building, trying to get them to go to your website, watching content on your website. And then when you say, Hey, guys, I have this amazing blog that you can go and check out once they’re on your website, even if it’s YouTube, even if it’s a YouTube video, you should not be sending people to somebody else’s house, you should be making sure that they’re coming to your house, which is your website. And on there. That’s when they can discover, okay, the services that you have the extra things that you can provide for them.

Yeah, I noticed on your website, you’ve got a download a PDF, and I think that you give your email address. And at that point, you’ve got me Haven’t you? I’ve got a PDF, but you’ve got you’ve got my email address. Yeah,

so I like email because in, in my experience, that’s been the highest converting thing all using Instagram, and then sending them to my website. And then from there, they are able to join my emails, and then I give them like weekly emails, lots of value. And, and usually, you know, students want me to help them through the email, you know, when I so okay, let me just go back a little bit. Offering is like such an important part of business. And that’s another thing that I hate asking people like buy from me. And so one person needs to know that you want to buy from, I mean, you want them to buy from you at least seven times, like you need to ask them seven different ways. So your Instagram is a great way to get them to basically know about your business and asking for that offer. But we can talk about that more if you want later.

Some interesting questions. Aleem, I want to throw a couple of questions at you in Katy,

as well, we can do a question round, like just yeah, we’ve got a round

of questions.

might loose women this?

Well? Kind of,

I’m pretending I’m on Loose Women.

The thing that Lisa’s asking is, can you give too much information away for free, which might discourage the customer from purchasing? Like I know, your your thing is all about adding value? Is there a place where you you might have found yourself perhaps adding too much value? And then there’s less for people to get involved in? Does it work like that? Or is it the other way around for you?

So the idea is that you I mean, you might have different opinions out there, but for me, I think so if you are going to give information, give it fully. And then when it comes to the course or the programme, you are taking them like systematic like from the beginning till the end. So that’s the difference is like when they take your course, you’re you’re teaching them from the very beginning. Sometimes it’s customised. Sometimes it’s like cater to that one person. And so you know, their needs and their problems, and you can help them directly. But at the end of the day, I think the more value you can give, the better is for your business, because they’re not going to want to work with anybody else. If they feel like you are the best in your industry and you’re you’re generous with your information and the thought is going to be if she’s providing this value when it’s free. What is it going to be like to work with

her? As an honorary loose woman? I’ve got one more question to ask you. And then I’m going to discuss gonna hand over to Katie, because I got a couple of questions for both of you. Theresa Allen bless Teresa. She’s saying how do you keep up to date, but not get sucked into the world of social media? She finds it a bit overwhelming because there’s so much content available? And I guess linked to that she’s saying do you try and keep up with your contemporaries? And do you kind of look at what other people are doing in your space for inspiration, you know, to keep ahead of the competition, or you just you kind of ignore that stuff and just, you know, just focus on adding value for your customers. What does that look like for you? And then I’m going to ask Katie a question, which I’ve written down, which is exciting for everybody. Halima. So, what do you think? How do you handle that?

Um, in terms of looking at other people’s content, I tried to avoid as much as I can, unless I’m like, there’s nothing, there’s no ideas coming to me. And I’m like, I really need inspiration. And even then I won’t go to people in my field. So what I’ll do is, if I want to get inspiration, I will go to other people. And even if I do something similar or like, it won’t affect the businesses, because it’s a completely different business. And when you take your content and put it on top of that, it just looks new and amazing. But if you go to your competition, and you’re like, Oh, I really liked that video, let me do the exact same thing. Most likely, they’re going to see somebody else is following them that’s also following you is going to see and I own all honestly, would just stay away from looking at other people’s content. Because what that what happens is, we tend to just start to compare. They’re doing it better. Their followers love them, and they don’t love me, I’m not good enough. So stay in your lane, I would say to that answer. Yeah, keep going.

That’s great advice. Great advice. Katie, since you’ve been doing this social media stuff over the last couple of years, what have been your experiences, you know, good and bad when you when you because I know, I think you’re a little bit like me, you know, you go with it when your energies there, and you kind of get involved in stuff, and then you sort of disappear back into the shadows for a bit. And then you come back, I do exactly the same. I just wonder, you know, have your attitudes to it changed any? And What have your experiences been of doing some of the social media stuff over the last couple of years?

I think that I get lost in it is the thing. And when I was talking about comparing, so I I compare myself, I know I shouldn’t I know that those lows aren’t real. But even though with all that logical information, I’m comparing my life and what I’m doing to other people all the time. And it’s usually the Beckham’s, which is a bit of a strange, a strange thing to do that. I don’t know why. But I still do it. I still do it. Look at the, the backends all of their social media accounts,

because look a bit like David and Victoria you me.

So I, I tend to get lost in it. I do exactly as you said. So when I’m on pop up, I get onto Facebook, and I’m all I’m going for I’m on Twitter, and I’m on it. And then I’m on Instagram, and I’m roaring and I’m on there constantly, and I’m chatting away to people and I’m loving it. And then I’m realising I’m not actually moving forward. I’m just reading lots of other people’s stuff. And I stop commenting, and I stop adding value, and I just read other people’s stuff, and then I get on Twitter. And then I’m noticing all the politics and all the hate. And I get lost in that. And then I’ve lost three hours. And then I think right, that’s it. I’m deleting Twitter. So I take the app off my phone, I do the same with Instagram. And I do the same with Facebook, the only one I keep is LinkedIn. Yeah, because I kinda liked LinkedIn quite a lot.

Very good on that. You’re very good on that. Well, I want to get

better. And I’m interested in talking to Haley man, half of you on LinkedIn as well. In fact, I’ve just got a book, I talked about this. And I thought I’d better buy a copy, which is in LinkedIn inbound. So I’m not a great reader of business books. I know that maybe I shouldn’t admit that on pop up business school, because everybody on pop up whisker schools just reads business books the whole time. But anyway, I bought one, I can watch this. And so I get really good on LinkedIn, because I like LinkedIn, because there’s no there’s not too much arguing. And it’s about work. It’s about business. There’s lots of entrepreneurs on there, and I kind of get into it. But yeah, so I have a funny relationship with it, where I’m all out going for it. And then I just pull straight back. Because I feel as though I waste too much time I go down a rabbit hole with it. So I’m very interested in in discipline around it because I know it’s incredibly powerful. And I meet people all the time who are running their businesses and have a full pipeline for this social selling idea. Where really you’re not out Amish, you’re not phoning people up. You’re not cold calling, people are coming to you. When I’ve been using LinkedIn a bit I have had people come to me and offer me speaking gigs because of LinkedIn. Yeah, so I’m very much more open to it. Before pop up business school I didn’t really understand at all. And I didn’t understand video either. hadn’t really done a video. You made me do it.

Yes. Sorry. Which to be fair, you nailed the video. You did a great job. I look I guess Halima I’m interested to know I want to get into some of the detail because I know this will be interesting to folk watching. Graham. Lovely Graham in Portsmouth says comparison is he talking? So he’s kind of agreeing with the some of the stuff that we’re saying, Sonia. Sonia is fabulous on Yakubu les who’s making some cooking videos. She’s kind of saying that’s the thing. that she needed to hear today is to stop comparing. So that stuff is, is super useful to hear you saying staying in your lane. A couple of people are commenting on that. Amazon during the approach, Elizabeth’s asked the question, if you have a product, what free value can you offer? If your thing as a physical thing, because you’re kind of going, you’ve got a service that you can, you can give little bite sized bits of your service and deliver it in lots of different ways. If you’ve got a physical product, what value can we add, then? What do you reckon? What have you seen people do?

So it depends. It depends on the product. So there’s different ways of, say for example, if it’s like a health, I don’t know, product, you would start teaching, you know, the health benefits of certain vitamins, for example. So you have to go around and think, How can I deliver value, but it’s associated with the product that I’m selling? And so from there, you can the product can be like, the end thing that the person would need. But before they get to that, what what information do they need to know about in order to get that product? So for example, shoes, I don’t know why shoes is in my head. There are certain like, things that you need to make people aware. Like, for example, the other day, I saw someone saying heels are horrible, you know, like, what kind of heels are not, you know, like, Where does the the actual he’ll have to be for it to be comfortable. And it was just like, Wow, that’s amazing. I would like from now on all the shoes I buy are going to be the heels gonna be at the bottom and not like sticking out a little bit the you know, so that it’s uncomfortable. So for me, it’s if I was somebody avatar, I really I don’t like feeling uncomfortable with my shoes. So making me aware of that. Making me understand that you know, how to walk in shoes, I don’t know, high heels? Or what kind of material helps the person who’s wearing those shoes. So it just depends, I think on the product and you just think what would my ICA want to know? And sometimes with products? It’s it can be tricky, obviously than online information, but just be answered lots of questions about like, the product that people would want to on? I mean, have answered. Yeah,

that’s great. And jewellery is the business. I think that Elizabeth as soon as you just mentioned so I guess, you know, we could do things like how the products made where you get your inspiration from? What kind of jewellery fits with what kind of clothing? Yeah, exactly. suit you eyes. I don’t know I’m making now sometimes.

You did great man. Like I don’t want any jewellery. But the idea is like, okay, so I’m not a jewellery wearer. So how do I wear jewellery? Can I wear like patterns with? You know, chunky necklace? Do I need to wear it? Like, there’s so many questions? How can I do it? Like, so educating people on how to be fashionable with the jewellery? How to, you know, wear it and giving them ideas on how to wear it would be a really great example. Maybe sometimes even using the same jewellery to create, like a bracelet or a belt, or whatever it is. So you are giving them that value like to say, Oh, wow, like, that’s an incredible product, where can I find that product? So just by adding, like you said, lots of information around that and helping them you know, deliver that value before they, they even purchase from you. And another thing is like also sharing, like, if you do stuff for your business. So if you buy like, you know, a product 10% gets given to sound like a charity, for example, people want to know that information, especially with products. I mean, with both, I guess,

but yeah, it all makes great content, doesn’t it? Yeah, it makes great content of

things you can share. But the idea is just have it around delivering value for that person. If it’s an accessory. How can I wet accessory? I have no idea how to wear that piece of African jewellery. How do I wear it? Can you give me lots of examples? Can you show me how I can wear it differently? How I can take it to the next level? You know what I mean? Just those kinds of I think tips

will help I think how to videos as well how things are made are great for artists and crafters. Yeah, to show people I mean we all love to, you know to see that musicians, singers, artists, crafters, and there’s bags of content that you can produce there. And also people’s stories. You know, we talk a lot about building trust with people. And one of the ways is just to be honest and to be truthful, and to show them that you know the adventure you’re on with your business and being and letting people have a look at it if you like, what you’re doing and what you’re up to, and why you’re doing it. So there’s lots you can do. But it means putting yourself out there a little bit and, you know, say exposing yourself a little bit in the best way.

It’s not that kind of show. But maybe next time, maybe next time, hey, look, a question in my mind. And I know that Katie gets asked this question a lot, as well as as well as me. I bet you do as well Halima when you’ve been helping people with with Instagram. How often is the right frequency for posting? You know, should you be doing something every day? Should you be doing something twice a day, three times a week, sometimes people are hesitant, because they go I don’t want to overload people in my feed. I don’t want to get bored of what I’m doing. Or I’m kind of running out of content. Now. I’ve kind of said everything I want to say what do I do now? Have you got a sense of, you know, since you’ve been doing this a little while of what? What a good frequency? If you’re someone who’s serious about growing a following on Instagram, or indeed any of the other platforms? what’s your what’s your advice on the frequency of posting?

Well, I would go to the the the question that I answered is go for quality rather than quantity. So just taking things out there and saying, Oh, I’m going to produce three videos a day, and they’re just worthless. I think focus on how much can how much can you actually create in a long period of time? So yes, I know you’re excited right now. For the next three days, you can post 10 times a day, but in a month, or two months, or three months, when you feel like there’s no attraction, there’s nothing happening. And then, you know, you want to go back to maybe once a month, I think the idea is to understand, okay, what are your capabilities, quality versus quantity. And really being intentional when it comes to your ICA your business. And I think that’s, that’s the things that should be in your head when you are you are posting in terms of the algorithm and everything. Instagram loves it when you post like, it’s just something they want everybody to keep posting, right. But they will show it to a percentage of your audience. So you have 1000 Audience, they’ll show a small percentage. And what happens is, if that percentage reacts really well, they’ll show more and then more and then eventually all end up in the you know, the the search, I forgot the name. But the the Discovery page. Yeah. So the idea is like, it’s like it just the first hour or two is so important. So when you can get your family and friends to like your posts and to give it that extra boost. At the very, very beginning is super helpful. Even liking it yourself. Don’t comment though? That’s unless you’re like saying, like, let me know what is the best? I don’t know, ice cream. And then, but like, I’ve seen some people comment on their own thing and say, Oh, this is great content. I’m like, this is weird.

Can I just ask a question? Yeah. Do you? Do you have a plan of what you’re going to post? So do you have next week’s plan? And do you have all your posts ready? And you know what you’re going to do? Or do you wake up in the morning? Go? What should I What should I post today,

I’m gonna be honest with you. So I have different. So depending on where I’m at, in the business, I’m focusing or I tend to do weekly. So that’s what I found, like, works with me. So at the beginning of the week, I’m like, I want to post about this, this and this and this during the week. So I’ll do a quick plan. And, and then then I’ll like have like pictures and stuff like that ready for that week. And sometimes when I’m like on the bus, or I’m doing nothing, I’ll create the descriptions because now I’ve done it for so long, that it’s just something that it doesn’t take me very long to create. But having said that, like I have like different kind of periods where I’ve gone through scheduling everything a month in advance, and I’m like, oh, did I just post something like to like posting like, last minute, I would not 100% Recommend posting last minute. It does drain you. It does make you feel like oh my god, oh my god, I have to post something. And you’re not using the prefrontal cortex, which is in charge of your planning. So when you’re not using that you’re using the other side of your brain which is like the one that’s like reaction react. I forgot the name of that one. But anyway, I

call that the downstairs brain. The monkey brains have Yeah, they have the upstairs and the downstairs brain the upstairs for the clever executive stuff. You’re downstairs for

us to do this. Yeah. Is there a good time of day to post to Lima if you if you got any thoughts on? Is it morning? Evening? Do you have you got any tips for avoiding the the, the cold following

you? Yeah, right. Okay. The people that are for every every page has their own kind of accumulative best time to post, for example from. For me, I have this app that lets me know when Blackboard English most people online, and every single day is different. And it’s it’s kind of weird, because each week I’ll go on there. And I’m like, okay, Monday, 315. Tuesday, you know what I mean? And it will let me know. So it’s, it’s called when to post when to post the app. But that’s like, Apple, I’m not sure about people that have Samsung,

does it? Because some of your customers aren’t UK based yet? Does things have to go out at strange times? Or have you found that’s not something?

Oh, yeah. That’s a really good question. And before I answer that, could could you change the, the, what’s called the YouTube one? Because I mean, I don’t think anybody could find value in that one. Because, and I don’t want people watching videos of me.

Where do you want to send people? Halima? Where should they go? If

you could send them to the social hub? Yeah, sure. This social their social Yeah. And, yeah, that’s where all of my information is

social. Let’s do that. Just before

I forget, I was like, staring it.

So this social we can do that.

Oh, it’s while you’re doing that. Simon, can I ask a question? Yeah, sure. What’s your big goal? What’s the big thing you read? You have something in the future that you imagined

question before this. I feel like I didn’t answer your question. Oh, yeah. You asked me about the time thing. Yes. I just give them I say GMT, and they know is the UK timing.

Right. Okay. So I was just filling it because he was looking at his phone. Fill here, I’ll fill with a question.

Sitting looking at my phone going now I’m typing something in to get jack to do the thing. And this is this is when you sing? Did we not talk about that?

Oh, yes. And

I look okay, so you’re using some apps to get some information, you’re scheduling your posts so that it’s not last minute. You’re posting regularly, but you’re adding value and I love I’ve written down the term, enchanting your customers or your is lovely. I think that’s a really, really cool way to think about this. And I guess it doesn’t always go right, though, does it? There’s, there’s, you know, something happened in our support group tonight. Which, you know, left a bad taste in the mouth. And, you know, some people post some things that are offensive, some people can be negative, some people can be racist, some people can be sexist. And I think some of them, okay. I’m interested in this because I know there are lots of people watching that are fearful of social media, because they go, I don’t know how I’m going to handle it. If someone said something that was nasty, and so on, you’ve had all of this stuff. Halima? What’s your strategy? How do you deal with this?

I think I feel like I’m a walking target, honestly, on social media, because at the beginning, I used to have a different look. So I would put my scarf at the top here, although I like this, this is not how I wear my scarf. But because I had that same fear. And I completely understand people going in and not being their authentic self or not showing the pictures. Because of that fear of being attacked and being told, okay, like, you know, you’re different. So we hate you. So the idea is to come into the platform, knowing that’s going to happen expecting it and actually like we play like little games with my fellow teachers, where I tell them you know, you know we get excited when we get hate we kind of like say oh my god, like we must be like up there when we’re getting when we when you get your first hate. So, kind of making it like it’s it’s kind of it’s nothing to do with you but it’s like a almost like a milestone to get those comments because you only going to get those comments once you get go up there and it’s

okay, so it’s like an achievement like I’ve got my first my first raising it’s so fascinating because I don’t know if you saw the the livestream that we did with the YouTuber Matt esli. Who’s Joe wicks look alike carpenter guy, you know, he’s got 100 and something 1000 subscribers to his channel. He said exactly the same thing. He gamifies the hate so when he gets nasty comments, he has Yeah, he has a bit of banter with him. And he was really disappointed on Twitter. A couple of days ago, because he he said that we’ve got a contender for troll of the month. And he posted the comment, and then this person’s mysteriously disappeared, because he made them a feature of his show. So I guess, I guess kind of, you know, facing down the bullies, but you know, treating it as, as a bit of fun and again, seems to be the strategy that worked for him too. So it’s interesting that your approach is different, but similar.

Yeah, so um, one thing I want to add is, is going to be hate. I mean, it’s everywhere. But on Instagram, I’ve noticed that there’s less hate on Instagram than there is on YouTube. YouTube seems to be like this. People seem to kind of have this distant, like, they don’t feel like you’re there. So you’re recording the videos, and you’re going, whereas on Instagram, you’re doing stories, they know you’re present. And they know you’re going to read that comment. So I’ve seen less. Not that I’m saying that it doesn’t exist. It does. People will send me private messages, telling me things. And yeah, so for me, and when I, when I do want to say reply to this person, I will go in hardcore with kindness. And I will like, basically show that person that, you know, whatever they’re saying, it doesn’t mean anything, I’m still going to be the same person, I’m not going to get affected, I’m not going to feel upset. And I will still, like deliver that kindness just like I would with anybody else.

I love that. I want to ask you, can you believe an hour has gone by already, I just wanted to ask you, and I’m sure Katie’s got a question up her sleeve too. Just to finish. I want to get really granular about about posting on social media around hashtags. I always get questions about hashtags, and we do our best to answer them. I just wonder, you know, I feel like people think about them too much. I think. I just wonder, what’s your approach to the, to the, the mysterious phenomenon? That’s the hashtag? And how much time do you put in? You know, do you cut and paste? The same ones? You know, how do you research? How do you come up with the hashtags they use? And how important are they to the posting that you do?

Okay, so know that first of all, know that there are different Okay, so where do I start with this? Alright, so let’s, let’s talk about hashtags. First, what are they there are folders where all the posts go into. So just when you imagine a hashtag, don’t imagine a hashtag, or imagine an envelope with a hashtag on it. And that’s where your post goes into. So every time you use a hashtag, that post goes into that envelope, and that’s how Instagram categorises its information. So if you don’t have a hashtag, it’s going nowhere, except for your people, the people that are following you. And if you’re private, and you have a private account, and you’re using hashtags, it won’t work. So that’s, that’s, that’s the first stage to understand what they are. They’re nice way to describe it. Yeah, nice. And then the second thing is understanding that there are different types. There’s lots of different types of hashtags. And what I would say is use three levels of hashtags. And this is getting like all technical but

I’m, I’m writing this down any second, as soon as I finish my tea, I’m gonna write this down. I love it. This is what we need to lever.

So the idea is like you have top tier, middle tier and you know, low tier is it before my English is gone now. Okay, so the idea is to have high so first of all, understand the hashtags your business is using. So research, look, look at what other people are using for research, check other people’s posts, what kind of hashtags are they using? And then you can do you can go on explorer. If you’re on your phone right now, you can actually go on explorer able to

Yeah, go for it, go to

go to Explorer, and then type the hashtags that you want, for example, jewellery and then once you type jewellery, you’ll see a hashtag click on that. And then at the very top, it will tell you extra hashtags that you can use. So for example, necklace, fashion jewellery, jewellery, jewellery gramme, I didn’t even know that existed. But there’s like lots of different ones that it will suggest for you that’s associated with that word. And then you can check other people’s posts like like, that are appearing at the in the Explorer page.

Okay, nice. Do you post when you do your posts? Halima? Do you put all of the hashtag In the body of the main post as soon as you post it, or do you stick it in the comments, or do you break them up? What’s your

one thing for say that, um, is like the category. So having each hashtag has like millions and millions of posts. So making sure you have a combination of very low hits on that hashtag, and medium and really, really high. Super important.

So that’s that that was your three tears? Yeah, three levels. So the number of other posts on that hashtag, exactly. And use the busy ones, the middle ones and the the quieter ones. Okay, nice, nice. You have

to let the quieter ones are usually longer hashtags. That’s just like a tip for you to know the type of hashtags. But yeah, you were talking sorry?

Do you put them in the comments? Or do you put them in the the main, so it

doesn’t matter, but make a little bit of a difference, like a few seconds. Because as soon as you post Instagram, like starts to put it in different places. And so if you like spend, you know, you post it, and then you’re like sitting there trying to write the hashtags in the comments, if there’s that time lapse, so it can you know, help it can hinder your post from doing as well as putting them on the end right now you don’t really see the hashtags until you click, you know, see more, so it’s fine to just put little dots, and then let them go at the very bottom of your post.

Nice Halima? I guess what through my mind then is if what’s the is there any top tips that you think with Instagram that we haven’t talked about the thing? Hey, like, here’s a little trick is is a thing that I learned? Here’s the thing that if I shared this piece of value, it’d be really useful for people if we have recovered all the juicy stuff, or is there something that we might have missed and Lehman’s always

more. It’s like, okay, so now, like a few tips is like, collaborate a lot on Instagram. So work with other people that have your ICA, doing Instagram interviews, that is a really good way to grow your channel, because what happens is their audience automatically sees you. And then they can go on your page and follow you. So that’s like a really good thing is like having. So like, for example, right now, while we’re on here, you can just like put on Instagram, and kind of do a kind of dual thing. So you’re doing Facebook, and then you’re doing Instagram at the same time. So you can always do that. So lots of collaborations on Instagram will help you grow. Not focusing on the numbers and focusing on providing really quality, good content to your people to looking after the people that you already have. Will they will spread the news, you don’t have to do it. So take care of them and the rest will follow.

I love that. Katie, what else do we need to go before we let Halima go and have a well earned rest? And, and prepare for Ramadan? What can we what can we what can we ask Elena? What’s on your mind?

Well, I can listen to her tomorrow night. Just absolutely captivated. I just wanted, I just want this to continue. I’ve learned loads about Instagram, and I get a sharp get better at Instagram. I think the pop up my question isn’t Instagram because I am fascinated by your business. And you? How will you come across how this how you describe things, your personality, your energy shines through. Thank you so much keeps the way that you speak. It really does. And I just want to see where you’re going asked it before. And I was like my filler question that

was it? No, that was a great question.

And I’ve been doing my prep. And but my question here is what’s your big goal? What’s that thing that you dream of? Where is that? What is it?

So I want to be able to give as much as I can. I know this is gonna sound like a miss pageant. Like, I want to save the world. No, but like I really do want to help people abroad. So I don’t know if any of you know this, but I was a refugee in this country. I came here when I was nine years old, completely illiterate. I didn’t know anything. Like I didn’t know how to speak English or write or read in any other language. So I had no formal schooling. So I came to this country and they gave us a house they gave us everything and what happened was like that stayed with me and it made me feel super grateful for everything that I’ve been given in this country. And so I want to be able to to be that kind of beacon of hope for another person. So like pass it down and Be able to with the money that I get. And people don’t even know this because I don’t share it, but I should share it more, but 10% of all of my business, money, not even profits, like, all the money that comes in, the first thing I do is like, take 10% of that money and give it to charity. And that’s like something that means so much to me, I think it’s, there’s no point of that’s like my why, like, if there’s no point of what I do, if it’s not that, and that’s how I started my business, wanting to help other people. So the big thing I would say is like, helping others, and you know what I want to say so much, but I actually want to say like, Thank you, like, take the time to say thank you to pop up because, you know, with with the second business, I’m able to help startups with Instagram, and I and at the beginning, I thought this was just such a trivial thing. And I just thought I wouldn’t be really helping anybody. And it was literally like poppers and the the pop up business, like just pushing me forward and saying, This is what you need to do. And, and I’ve been helping women, like I have so many women that I just now I’m just looking at them. And I’m like, I am so proud of you, you’re going online, you’re going live, you’re creating posts that I just would never imagine. And I just I kind of feel humble, like, like, and I just feel like so good that you guys are doing this like to help others because then they can help more people and you’re just creating this kind of ripple effect. That will like I feel like it’s definitely something that I just want more and more people to know about pop up so that they can, you know, do what they’re supposed to do as well. So I just want to say an official thank you to both of you, Katie and Simon, because when I attended it was both of you that taught me what I needed to learn.

i It was a pleasure. I remember, I guess the the little huddle that you had with people in that community centre in Pimlico. That was the very first version of the social heart, wasn’t it? That was the that was your first you kind of you put your hand up in your head, right? Who wants to learn about Instagram, I got a few 1000 followers, I can teach you some things. And there was this kind of hardcore group of about six or seven women that stayed behind after class and huddled with you and talked about Instagram. And I think I think Eileen might have been one of those people. Right? So Eileen is she’s commented in here and she said, Thank you. She’s feeling inspired. She says this has helped motivate me again, to get out of my cave. Thank you, Simon Katie and Halima. So she has added lots of AST and some love and some kisses around.

So the first students like Rashida, for example, Eileen was one of the very first students did you know what the support is just it was like, out of this world, like, I was like, I have a course and they just kind of believe that I would be able to deliver that value. And that’s like, what Papa zoo like they just help each other. And they’re just they’re like to really take care of you. And we actually have a small group of women that I want to mention it from the pop up that we built this, like mastermind, and we help each other through this process, you know, and Eileen and Rashida Rania are in the group, Corvino is another one. caminos, the photographer, photographer. Yeah, she’s amazing. So all my beautiful pictures are from her. And Francesco is another one, and we just have this group of like, we’re creating this amazing friendship that is just I can’t imagine like me being in this spot right now. And if it wasn’t like just taking that, that kind of step to go and do a class at the that in Pimlico, and by the way, I was never going to go that was like it’s so far away. I decided because I live in Edgware. So it’s like so far away from it, but it was so worth

it. Halima it’s been absolutely brilliant. I think we’re going to pause there because there’s a bunch of comments coming in lots of people saying thank you, I know you’ll dive into those. Jack has added the link but we’ll make sure it’s in there. If you want to know more about Halima, you can find her on Instagram, you can go to the website, the social and you can find her at Blackboard English on Instagram as well so Halima, you’ve been a complete inspiration as ever. Thank you so much for giving us your time this evening. And if you want to watch this video if you have if you missed the start, or you want to share this with someone, all of our videos, go on the pop up business school website on the survival guide. We also post the video to our YouTube channel. And it will of course be available on our Facebook page as well. Thank you very much everybody for watching. Next week is another big week on these live streams. We’re back every Tuesday every Thursday, we’ve got a millionaire joining us on Tuesday to talk about how she retired early. The millennial revolution. Christy Shen is joining us on Tuesday. And then on Thursday, we’ve got a friend of mine, Jamie smart. He’s a Sunday Times bestselling author. He’s written a book called Clarity and a book called results. He’s a coach trainer, an all round legend and he is my go to yoga. So he’s going to talk to us about about some of the stuff that’s in his mind at the moment about coping with a lockdown. His stuff on a mental health is amazing. And the books that he wrote, I read have been transformational. Sorry, Katie. There was a couple of extra business books I might have read last year. And so yet we’ll see on Tuesday next week. 9pm Thank you, Katie for being wonderful and legendary as ever. Angelina and Katie. Good night, everybody. Thank you for watching.

Thank you. Bye